Sight issues or barrel alignment ??

[ERO1052]

Ok I’m at a loss. Just got a 67-5 took it out today and I see it shoots low left, at 10, 15 and 25 yards. I can raise the rear sight to bring it up but to get it to center horizontally I’m needing to move the rear sight blade almost all the way over to the right! I’ve tried it from a rest as well as two handed and to get it to shoot where I’m pointing I need major adjustment to the right. I don’t think it’s all because of me. I shoot bullseye and shoot 265 to 275 out of 300 so I have some trigger control. I bought it used. So my questions: is the rear sight bad? Can I send it to S&W under warranty even thought it’s used? Is the barrel out of alignment, it doesn’t look like it. I put a laser light in the cylinder and with the rear blade centered I can line up with sights to the red dot with no problem. Ugh!!

 

[k22fan]

Bullseye is usually shot with single action automatics. Do other revolvers hit closer to point of aim for you? If you have a bunch of other revolvers and this is the only one that shoots significantly to the right that makes the mechanical condition of the revolver suspect. If this is your first revolver then we can talk about how you grip the gun first.

S&W used to train armorers in large city police departments to adjust Model 10 windage by bending the frame. They'd strike the side of the frame out side the barrel threads with a babbit bar. Brownell's still sells the bars. It's best to practice on some one else's Model 10s before whacking your own.

The best answer is replace the rear blade with a taller one, screw the the new blade over to the left, and look at sight alignment rather than at the rear blade's position in its base. In other words, there is no problem if you stop examining the gun and just go shoot it.

 

[ERO1052]

Thank you for your information. The bullseye comment was to let people know I have some degree of trigger control. I don’t use the 67-5 for bulls eye My concern was that I had to adjust the rear sight blade so far to the right to get it to shoot in the center of the target. This is my 4th S&w revolver 2. 629s and a 66.

 

[cololab]

Years ago I bought a brand new 629-2 from a local dealer. The barrel on this revolver was not properly indexed and the rear sight would just barely move far enough to allow a zero. I sent the revolver back to S&W for correction and they verified the barrel was indeed canted. They corrected the issue and all was good after that.

The above may or may not be a part of the reason for your present difficulties in getting your sights zeroed.

 

[k22fan]

In order to get enough torque during assembly some barrels get rotated in further moving the sight past 12 O'clock. That moves point of impact right. You can spot that by comparing the barrel rib to the top strap. The same as with Colt's most expensive Pythons, a few degrees misalignment has always been within tolerance. About 1976 I had to send one K-22 back under warranty because S&W milled the slot for its Patridge sight at an angle. Do you see either of those things?

I still do not know whether the problem is the gun or how much experience you have with revolvers. At the risk of offending you, here's basic shooting instruction. I'll assume you are right handed. The web of your hand should be up high contacting the frame where the frame is nearly vertical. Rotating your grip counter clockwise around the grip frame to get your forearm bones in line with the barrel as is often taught in bullseye moves point of impact to the right. Rotating your grip clockwise like you'd do to stick your finger further through the trigger guard lessens resistance to the gun recoiling toward the center of your body moving point of impact to the left.

I used to turn in bullseye scores in the higher end of the expert range shooting K-22s double action through the whole match. To get better leverage I center my first joint on the trigger. To compensate I have to move the sight to the right.

 

[ERO1052]

No offense taken. I’m going to the range tomorrow and compare two of my revolvers. I’m looking for the answer and can accept if I’m the one who needs correction One shooting issue I have is I am right handed but left eye dominant. And yes I’ve confirmed eye dominance a number of times. So I stand at a 45 degree angle to the target, revolver in right hand, web high, and aiming with my left eye and usually both eyes open. So before I call S&W I’ll run some rounds through it again.

 

[Ignatz]

I'm right handed and left eye dominant too. I put "matt" textured scotch tape over my left eye lens to shoot right handed. Just try it to see how you line up right eye/right hand. You keep both eyes open, but only see out of the right lens. Also the tape allows light in for the left eye.

 

[k22fan]

[...] One shooting issue I have is I am right handed but left eye dominant. [...] So I stand at a 45 degree angle to the target, revolver in right hand, web high, and aiming with my left eye and usually both eyes open. [...]

I am also right have and left eye dominant. Change "usually" to always and you have my technique. Covering one eye gives up depth perception, and I believe, clarity of sight picture. Depth perception is important hunting and in popular outdoor matches that try to vary the challenge every match and are run by people who include long range shots. At best it is relying on a crutch that will not always be available or that you will not always have time for.

Try a few bullseye practice matches with and revolver, preferably with iron sights. While it is harder, the common belief that it can not produce good scores comes from competitors who make that belief a self fulfilling prophesy. Locally, an 11th week is scored for those who need a make up score. The 11th week is a revolver practice match shot for a little trophy for those who want to participate. While it has not brought over any converts it is fun for the auto shooters.

 

[ERO1052]

Let’s say 99% both eyes open. I have an eye issue where my vision will get fuzzy and closing right eye at that point clears it up I go shoot my 66 for the center fire match. ( our league shoots two guns, rim and center fire) I also use a red dot on both guns. With slow and timed fire I shoot single action and for rapid fire I stage the trigger so I don’t lose the sight picture. I’m also pushing 66 this year and only really into shooting the last two years. Got to do something in retirement...lol. I’m going to try different holds tomorrow to see the result

Thanks again

 

[Toolguy]

Look at the gun from the top. See if the barrel goes off to the left at a slight angle to the topstrap of the frame. I have seen a couple like that. One of them was a M67. If that is the case, you will never get it sighted in.
The laser in the cylinder won't tell you anything. Put a laser in the barrel and see where it goes.

 

[Fishinfool]

Its hard diagnose a "gun problem" without actually examining the gun. That said, my experience with training shooters is that a right handed shooter shooting low left, especially with a DA revolver, is most often a trigger control issue. "Flinching", as they say. Try light loaded target loads out of the gun, two handed, in the single action mode, off hand, and see if the grouping doesn't come closer to center. From the bench or off a barricade is a great way to see how tight the gun groups, but will often change the POI as compared to off hand.

Larry

 

[k22fan]

[...] a right handed shooter shooting low left, especially with a DA revolver, is most often a trigger control issue. "Flinching", [...]

While that is true for hitting way off, he's turning in borderline expert bullseye scores with other guns. Our 50 foot indoor slow fire 10 ring is under 1" diameter. The outdoor 50 yard slow fire 10 ring is 2 3/4".

Substituting a snap cap or two while practicing with a revolver will reveal flinching. Give the cylinder a spin and close it out of your sight. The training trick more relevant to bullseye is dry firing with a coin balanced on top of the patridge sight. It should stay put through at least a few double action cycles. To get good you have to move beyond the belief that you are done when the trigger breaks. You need to watch the front sight rise up out of the rear notch while the gun recoils.

I've been told the best aid for learning follow through is a flint lock. Firing offhand you either follow through or miss.

For old geezers it is a good idea to dry fire with a weight added to the barrel. That builds muscle strength. Some old books had pictures of guys dry firing with their high top hunting boots dangling by their shoe laces.

Most trainers can only make money in the short range self defense market. For them, presuming shots go low left due to flinching is usually right.

 

[ERO1052]

Just to clarify. My hi revolver score was 235 5X S&W 66-8, my high rimfire was 270 5X Walther GSP. I shoot my other revolvers for fun and open sights and one handed. I did try the patch over my left eye then right eye. I haven’t used it in awhile. I’ll try the 67 tomorrow indoor and out and really pay attention to my grip, trigger and follow through. Thanks for all the help. If all else fails I’ll call S&W

Eric