Sigma 9mm range review + trigger job

[MDLNB]

striker spring question

I recently picked up a 9ve and my son-in-law has a Glock 17. He's been modding his Glock, so since the weather has kept me inside for a while, I decided to clean my sigma up a bit. I have finished polishing and removing springs, and it works great. Of course, it worked great to begin with. So did my Harley, but you know how that goes, personalization. But, I digress.

My question is this: Has anyone replaced their striker spring with a Wolf 4lb made for Glock spring? I am not even going to bother with the made for sigma 3.5lb replacement. I have heard about the light strikes on hard primers. Has anyone replaced their spring with the Glock 4lb, and if they did have they had any problems with it? I am just doing it on a whim. We have our own backyard range out here and we like to swap pistols back and forth when firing. I have a concealed carry weapon, so this one is just for inexpensive plinking, along with my inexpensive 9mm carbine.

Anyone with experience changing the striker out with the Glock spring, I would welcome your story.

Thanks.

 

[MDLNB]

Update

I had read several occurrences of light strikes when folks had replaced their stock striker spring (rated at 4.75lbs?) with a Wolf 3.5lb spring, so I decided to try something a bit different. I ordered a Wolf 4lb spring made for Glock, and installed it. It only makes a little difference on trigger pull, but combined with a little polishing, pig spring removal, and the ball point pen trick, it comes down to a very smooth and crisp action. It fires nice. I have been picking up cheap ammo from gun shows that seem to be just about every week right now. I have been searching for HARD primer ammo to test out my work. So far, I have had zero FTF/FTE on this pistol since I purchased it. It is a fine pistol, and the price for the quality is a steal.

I am putting it through the torture test to see if I do encounter any FTF due to weak striker strikes.

Remember, I have a different pistol that I use for concealed carry. For home defense I have my concealed pistol, a shotgun and a 9mm carbine. I also have other weapons of convenience. This pistol is for plinking. If it turns out to develop any FTF's I will put the stock spring back in.

I have heard some of you purists continuously admonish ANY change to the Sigma. That's fine, and I respect your view. However, I came onto this forum for ideas, NOT to be lectured about learning to live with "the way it was designed." Since I do not know the designer or the CEO of S&W, I don't know their reason for the current design. It may be for mass production of an economic entry weapon. Or, it may be that they figured that the more work they put into the adequate pistol to make it a higher quality machine will also cost them more. But, it really doesn't matter to me, since I bought it and own it. Now, I will personalize it to my liking. If you like it as is, I am happy for you.

Like I said before, I have a Mustang and two Harleys that have after market modifications to them. They fit ME. They were good to begin with, but better now.

If anyone has suggestions, I appreciate it. If you want to admonish me, or warn me.....thank you, I also appreciate your concern. I plan on shooting more targets than bad guys, so I appreciate any suggestions in my experiments.

I am presently looking for hard primer ammo. I want to see what it will take to make this thing fail, before I back track.

Something else I am going to do later this week is to clean it again and replace any residue oil with a dry lubricant spray, made by S&W. I understand that it will cut down on a lot of residue sticking to oil. I guess it will be similar to using graphite in door locks.

 

[frankmusic]

Stay the course

Well put. Nothing left to say regarding your approach, other than a let's wait and see how it all worked out for you.

I've dealt with revolvers most of my life and the transition was not too difficult for myself. Does the gun need a bit of refinement? No doubt. Do I personally want to potentially risk compromising the reliability? No.

However, the long term results from (always reversable) tweaking is not only intriguing it also provides insight to all who choose to address this issue.

Well done.

All in all, for what it cost - there is NO doubt in my mind that this little gun is worth every penny I spent on it.

 

[MDLNB]

Here's my update:

Replaced every spring in my 9ve except for the extractor spring, recoil sring and slide lock spring.
Removed "pigtail spring"
Using a dremel, I polished all points of friction, including the chamber ramp.
Used fine grit wet and dry sandpaper to smooth plastic contact points.
I also used fine wet and dry folded on a credit card to polish the slide rails/grooves. There were some small steel burrs existing.
Coated all moving parts with S&W Dry Lube. Sprays on wet and then dries to a very slick surface film.
I am waiting for a Hi-Viz front sight made for Glocks, at which time I will replace the stock sight.
I am also considering the idea of replacing the stock guide rod and spring with a steel guide rod and spring of equal strength. My thought is that I can reduce the amount of friction by using a steel rod. My theory is that if I reduce the amount of friction, I reduce the need for stronger springs and my replacements should hold up.
Since these mods, I have fired about 200 rounds of cheap FMJ ammo, mostly PMC and Speer Lawman brand. '
I have had no failures or hiccups.
The trigger pull is now probably the smoothest action I have ever fired. I have reduced the trigger pull substantially and it is an even consistent pull to the break to fire position. It is not a sloppy or easy pull, but light enough to reduce pulling or wobble.

I plan to rapid fire more cheap ammo and then start firing some hot ammo and hollow points. Rapid fire should let me know if any of my spring replacements are too weak.

This should reduce the break in period. Although I agree with the other more senior members on this site that suggest that repetition will break in the pistol and make it smoother, and that repetition will also produce better aim and control, I have to add that I am hoping to shortcut the process, WITHOUT compromising the reliability of the weapon. They say that the weapon will smooth out and perform better after several thousand rounds shot through it. Not disagreeing with them, I am saying that it should be possible to achieve that goal in a shorter time period and be able to enhance the enjoyment of firing the Sigma earlier. This is an unqualified opinion and not meant in any way to disrespect those with more knowledge or experience. This is an experiment.

I would like to stress one point. This is not my primary self defense weapon. This weapon is used primarily to enjoy some back yard plinking and friendly competition with my son-in-law. Since this is NOT my primary self defense weapon, I can afford to experiment. These modifications are not being made spontaneously or without research.

I will reiterate what I have said in earlier posts. I liked my 9ve out of the box when I purchased it new. It worked flawlessly. I now like my sigma even better, and it works better than the Glocks I have fired. It is still safe. I have not removed or jeopardized either of the two safeties, trigger or striker safety plunger. I do not have a hair trigger, so there is no way to have an accidental discharge. You have to want to fire it, to fire it. It is still a double action style action.

I will update this again, once I have completed the rest of my torture tests. I will not hesitate to announce any failures, if they occur.

Basically, all I did was add power steering to a car that already worked fine from the factory. Let's see if I have been successful.

To be continued.......

 

[MDLNB]

Update:

I have now fired near a thousand rounds through my 9ve modified, with zero failures. It appears that my changes have been successful to this point in my testing. However, let me be clear that I have not fired any hot rounds through it since making my modifications. I have rapid fired though.

I have a theory that one of the reasons I have not had failures is that I preceded my mods by polishing and polishing the action some more. I also feel that S&W's Dry Lube is one of the best lubes I have used. The reason I feel this way is that I get NO sticky gunk build up normally found when using oils or grease.

I will update again after I have fired a series of hot ammo through the pistol.

I have not measured my trigger pull, but would estimate it to be around six pounds, if that.

 

[angel71rs]

I have a theory that one of the reasons I have not had failures is that I preceded my mods by polishing and polishing the action some more.

Completely agree that polishing out the roughness, especially in the slot, is key to maintaining reliability.

I will update again after I have fired a series of hot ammo through the pistol.

I've shot Gold Dot +P 124 gr without issue. I get it from SGAmmo, best prices I've found on SD ammo. They also carry various flavors of Ranger:

9mm / 9x19 | SGAmmo.com

 

[MDLNB]

update

I have now fired a couple thousand rounds through my modified Sigma with NO misfires or miss-feeds. My son-in-law wants to purchase one for my daughter and have me modify it for her so she can compete along side of him. They are amazed at how well it performs, and the Hi-viz front sight makes it even better. My other, visiting daughter and her fairly new husband, tried their hands at target shooting this holiday weekend, and really enjoyed themselves. My daughter had such a tight grouping that I was embarrassed to shoot after her. She started out throwing the rounds all over the place, until I gave her a bit of instruction. Then she had a group that would fit under a half dollar. My new son-in-law tried his hand with my Sigma, my other son-in-law's Glock and my other daughter's hammerless 38 spec. and did the best with the 38. He did like the Glock because of the larger handgrip. My Sigma was just too small for his large hands. But, he liked the action on my Sigma best. He runs a business and one of his female employees carries concealed. He is now interested in obtaining his CCW. He has never shot pistols before and after two days of shooting, admitted that he really enjoyed himself.

 

[angel71rs]

Wake up sleeping beauty!

My 9VE has been sitting unused in the safe for many months. Busy with other projects, new guns, etc. Decided to take it out for a spin. Did not apply fresh lube, it was as I had left it, lubed then laid on a shelf in the safe. Zero problems, ran like a champ. Post fun cleaning/inspection showed no issues from running on an old lube job. So I lubed it up and put it back in the safe, but promised Vicky (VE, get it ) I'd take her out more regularly.

My 250 buck Sigma continues to be one of my best purchases ever!

 

[BClayton357]

I got back from the range today after doing a something similar with my 9VE. I had installed the Apex spring kit. Replaced striker, ejector, and trigger springs, also replaced the sear spring and polished those surfaces. I used lithium grease as directed by Apex. Thought I had done something until I read your recent posts MD's posts of all this work you did with your VE.

Anyway, I was worried that I would get light strikes and FTF issues after these changes, but the gun shot perfect for the 200 rounds i shot today, and so much more fun to shoot decent groups for a change. I think the trigger is down from 12 to maybe 5 or 6 lbs. Still not as smooth as I would like. There is a little friction on where the sear rises on the plastic shoulder causing some jerky movement in the trigger.

This is my Home SD gun at least until my Shield gets here. I need to run another 200 fmj rounds through it to be sure and also some of the SD ammo. My Sigma has never missed a beat in 1000 rounds or so, so I don't really want to mess with other surfaces like the breach ramp. I sure like the sound of this dry lube. Where might I find this product? And thanks for sharing all your work, there's a lot of us in the same boat trying to get the most out of these VE,s. I am thinking about picking up a .40 before S&W stops making them. Best gun for the money out there and US made.

 

[angel71rs]

Surprised to hear you had no failures to fire with the lighter striker spring, so many report problems. What kind of ammo have you shot with the lighter striker spring in there?

The feed ramp on these pistols is pretty smooth compared to other manufacturers. Kel-Tecs have bad feed ramps, machine marks that run across the feed ramp, make it hard for bullets to slide up the ramp into the chamber. My P3AT would have even FMJ noses get caught on the machining marks. Those require feed ramp polishing for sure. Vicky's ramp was good, I just polish ramps out of habit I guess. But you won't harm anything if you do polish the ramp with 1000 sandpaper.

You can get dry lube at any supplier, here are results of a search I did on Midway:

Shooting Gear

I use Breakfree CLP, never had issues on any of my firearms.

You are going to love your Shield. I still can't believe how accurate I can be with it out to 15 yds. Gratuitous pic of mine in the Remora holster I use for carry:

 

[BClayton357]

I have used Break Free CLP before. The can got away from me. A lot of people don't think it's enough and recommend oil and/or grease too since the BF evaporates. Makes sense to use the BF on the polymer parts and and steel/polymer contact points. Will look around for that little can or as last resort drop another $5 at Walmart.

I was shooting Winchester and Speer Lawman 115 gr. The Apex striker spring was a much less stiff than original so I was worried about misfires. Will shoot another 200 rds next weekend if the weathers good and if that goes well will keep the mod. One really stupid thing I did was range practiced with various target ammo, then loaded up with some Hornady Critical Defense ammo after only test firing 10 rds (Hey, that stuff's expensive!) for HD. Especially now with the new mods I will stick with the tested 115 gr FMJ's until I can test fire some quality hollow points.

This brings me to a new question. I picked up two boxes of 9mm Lugar Hornady Critical DUTY and didn't notice it was +P 135 gr. I know not +p is not recommended for all guns not being approved for some guns. Will my 9vE handle this ammo ok, or should I save it for my Shield?

 

[stev32k]

I've had a sigma .40 for about 8 months now. When I first got it it was failing to load two to five times with every full magazine. I polished the feed ramp and tried everything anyone suggested. I finally sent it back to S&W and they machined a small champer on the leading edge of the feed ramp and another where the feed ramp joins the chamber. Since then I have not had a single jam of any kind.

I load all my own ammo and have used just about every bullet type made including cast and the gun handles them all without a problem.

I did the trigger mods everyone talks about. I removed the pig tail and the outer spring and did not put in a cover spring. So far no issues at all. One thing I did do that I have not heard of anyone else doing is polishing the trigger connector bar.

If you hold the gun to your ear and work the trigger back and forth you can hear a gritty, scraping sound. That noise is the trigger connector bar rubbing against the frame. I used my dremel and polishing paste to polish the side of the bar that rubs against the frame. That did not eliminate the rub but it does sound more like a sliding sound rather than a gritty sandpaper noise.

I haven't messed with the striker spring and I've kinda got used to the hard and long trigger pull.

 

[angel71rs]

I have used Break Free CLP before. The can got away from me. A lot of people don't think it's enough and recommend oil and/or grease too since the BF evaporates.

Not to sound like a shill for CLP, but works fine for me, no evidence of abnormal wear on any of my firearms. I'm sure you can find individual products that would perform each individual function better than CLP, but I like to use just one for all 3.

This brings me to a new question. I picked up two boxes of 9mm Lugar Hornady Critical DUTY and didn't notice it was +P 135 gr. I know not +p is not recommended for all guns not being approved for some guns. Will my 9vE handle this ammo ok, or should I save it for my Shield?

Sigma is rated for any 9mm ammo that meets SAAMI spec. 9mm+p is a SAAMI spec, so ok to use. I've shot +p Gold Dot in mine, and shot a 40 S&W Sigma too. 9mm +p is no where near the recoil of 40, and I've yet to hear about anyone busting a 40 Sigma.

I get the 50 round boxes of GD from SGAmmo for about the same price as local stores want for a box half the size. The also carry Ranger ammo. Right now they are getting hammered with orders, so not sure what they have in stock.

 

[BClayton357]

Not to sound like a shill for CLP, but works fine for me, no evidence of abnormal wear on any of my firearms. I'm sure you can find individual products that would perform each individual function better than CLP, but I like to use just one for all 3.


Sigma is rated for any 9mm ammo that meets SAAMI spec. 9mm+p is a SAAMI spec, so ok to use. I've shot +p Gold Dot in mine, and shot a 40 S&W Sigma too. 9mm +p is no where near the recoil of 40, and I've yet to hear about anyone busting a 40 Sigma.

I get the 50 round boxes of GD from SGAmmo for about the same price as local stores want for a box half the size. The also carry Ranger ammo. Right now they are getting hammered with orders, so not sure what they have in stock.

Thanks for your insights Angel. I clean my guns after every trip to the range whether they need it or not. I broke down and bought another can of CLP (figured that was the best way to find the old can). I like the CLP. I don't make near as much mess with it. Have yet to buy ammo on line, but sure need to find it cheaper. No problem with shipping straight to you?

 

[angel71rs]

figured that was the best way to find the old can

Ain't that the truth.

No problem with shipping straight to you?

Not at all. In fact, I've been on an ammo buying spree, even way before the election. UPS and FedEx guys know my house well. Some areas do restrict online ammo purchases, but the ammo seller sites will have warnings. Here is Freedom Munitions page on shipping restriction, pretty much typical:

Terms

I'm in TX, so no problems. I get my range practice bulk (Blaster series) from Freedom in most calibers, bulk 7.62x39 from SG, premium SD ammo from SG. Both are reasonable on shipping, but of course you have to get an amount of ammo worth spreading the shipping over. e.g. a case of 9mm from Freedom shipped to my door works out to a hair over $9 a box.

Some sellers require a signature, no signature required w/Freedom, optional w/SG. I decline option cause I work weird hours, they just leave it on my porch. If you do order from Freedom, choose FedEx under "other shippers", couple bucks cheaper than UPS default shipper.