Silver lining in the cloud.

[muddocktor]

Well, last year I decided that I needed to disassemble around 600 rounds of 9MM that I had loaded using old powder data that turned out to be grossly overpressure. So, since I already have a CH Tool & Die bullet puller, I went to order a collet to fit 9MM/357 and they didn't have any in stock and weren't planning to make a collet run until the end of the year. So I told them that when they got around to doing the run to make me one and charge me then. So right after Christmas I received my collet while I was at work on the rig.

Today being a dreary rainy looking day, I went ahead and broke out the T-7 and my puller die and put the collet in and started to pull bullets and salvage bullets, powder and primed cases. The collet grabs those 115 grain Rem JHP bullets just fine and doesn't mark them at all. I should be able to pull everything down and salvage everything for reuse, all without making a mess like a kinetic puller seems to do with fine grained powders. So I should end up with around 1/2 lb of powder and 600 or so bullets and primed cases. And gives me something to do during cruddy weather too.

 

[nbedford]

Great minds ... I did the same thing with some very inaccurate 44 Special JHP loads. Partly in self defense; since one round I fired did not quite exit the barrel, but lodged at the muzzle. I reloaded them back when I would do test loads of 50 rounds a test, and was over run with LP primers and powder. So I freed up 50 primed and sized 44 Special cases with my inertial bullet puller, and did not have to dip into my stock.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Glad to hear that you finally got your order in and was able to pull the bullets in those loads.

I don't have that "Fancy tool" and have to pull bullets the old fashioned way, with the "Hammer".

Would you mind telling us what powder was in those loads?
I load min's to max's and am just curious to what the powder was.

With 600 bullets you have lots of loads in the future for you.
Have fun.

 

[muddocktor]

It was Accurate #2. Evidently, the powder specs changed from what they were selling in the late 80s and early to mid 90s. I had loaded this on the real hot side for shooting in my Uzi and with the powder from back then the loads were safe. But jump forward to powder from around 2010 and the same weight powder load made for some dangerously hot stuff, to the point of distorting cases. And I also found out that in between then and nowadays, Accurate had changed powder vendors several times and even had been bought out themselves, by Western Powders. I won't say what weight the load was or where it came from in public, but this was a printed load from a reputable loading manual (No, not Speer ).

EDIT: BTW, Ed, I inherited the CH bullet puller after my Dad passed in the 90s. He bought it back in the early to mid 60s. All I've had to buy for it was some different collets to pull different diameter bullets. It sure beats playing whack a mole when you have a bunch of rounds you need to pull.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Great catch! You bring up a very important point, in that powders change their loads(over time according to the lot).

That said, I ordered 18lb of H322 back in 2014 and pretty much sat on it ever sense, until recently. SSOoooo.... I probably should stick with my "older" manuals regarding loads for this powder.

*Memo to others...

 

[SMSgt]

I've been lucky so far in as I haven't needed to break down more than five rounds at any time. The inertia puller is fine for that, but I cannot imagine using it for a large number of rounds.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I just ordered a bullet knocker.
Will be Taking down old 270 reloads for a trade.
'Take this hammer, give it to the Captain'

 

[muddocktor]

Great catch! You bring up a very important point, in that powders change their loads(over time according to the lot).

That said, I ordered 18lb of H322 back in 2014 and pretty much sat on it ever sense, until recently. SSOoooo.... I probably should stick with my "older" manuals regarding loads for this powder.

*Memo to others...

Mike, so far I have pulled down about 300 rounds and I am thinking I know what has changed over the years with Accurate #2. I bet the burn rate has stayed essentially the same but I think they went to a lower bulk density formulation since the 90s powder I was using before the present stuff. Because most all I am pulling down is right at a compressed load, with some in the S&B and WCC cases actually being compressed. I don't remember the older powder having such a high fill in the case for a set weight of powder. And I am thinking that with such a high fill rate in the cases, pressures are ramping up faster due to being at 100% fill or compressed. I also seem to remember reading that Accurate was talking about a lower bulk density for this powder for better case fill too, but it's not on their website now.

But yeah, you are right about using old data with today's powders, because things could have changed over the years. Don't just assume, start lower and work back up.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Mike, so far I have pulled down about 300 rounds and I am thinking I know what has changed over the years with Accurate #2. I bet the burn rate has stayed essentially the same but I think they went to a lower bulk density formulation since the 90s powder I was using before the present stuff. Because most all I am pulling down is right at a compressed load, with some in the S&B and WCC cases actually being compressed. I don't remember the older powder having such a high fill in the case for a set weight of powder. And I am thinking that with such a high fill rate in the cases, pressures are ramping up faster due to being at 100% fill or compressed. I also seem to remember reading that Accurate was talking about a lower bulk density for this powder for better case fill too, but it's not on their website now.

But yeah, you are right about using old data with today's powders, because things could have changed over the years. Don't just assume, start lower and work back up.

I can't beleive a Bullseye or Acc #2 style anything being a compressed load, in any weapon !!

In my 38 & 9mm loads the fastest powder that is 100% case volume with a bullet on top is the Alliant Green Dot , that I have worked up over the years.

Yep, that Acc #2 load would definitely be a screamer !!
Glad that you pulled those loads.

Better safe than sorry.

 

[BC38]

WOW! A compressed load of AA#2?!?
The last time I loaded 9mm with AA#2 I used 4.3gr under a 115gr RNFMJ.
A compressed load must be at least 8 or 10 grains of the version of AA#2 I'm using! Definitely a density change at some point.

 

[Oracle]

Dumb question from a guy who doesn't reload yet. When there is a need to pull bullets what do you do if the powder can't for any reason be used by anyone?

My idea of spreading it out thinly on bare ground and tossing a match probably isn't the proper method.

 

[Dale53]

Oracle;
If you want to get rid of powder that you can't use, simply put it on your flower bed. It makes decent fertilizer, I understand. Really...

FWIW
Dale53

 

[Westie1]

I think I know the manual the OP used, and it shows 1.5gr more powder then my 1994 dated Accurate Arms #1 manual with the same bullet. Current data shows an increase of .3grs over the '94 data.

 

[Nevada Ed]

One reason it is nice to have 2-3 manuals to check out loads.

Even the little Lyman manual for 38, 357, 44 mag & 45 Colt
has an error on it's 38 special data on page 33, for the 110 JHP.

The data for HS-6 powder is way high and the +P load at 1043
is about 1.5 grs too much, per my testing, for the little J frame.

Stay safe.

 

[muddocktor]

I can't beleive a Bullseye or Acc #2 style anything being a compressed load, in any weapon !!

In my 38 & 9mm loads the fastest powder that is 100% case volume with a bullet on top is the Alliant Green Dot , that I have worked up over the years.

Yep, that Acc #2 load would definitely be a screamer !!
Glad that you pulled those loads.

Better safe than sorry.

WOW! A compressed load of AA#2?!?
The last time I loaded 9mm with AA#2 I used 4.3gr under a 115gr RNFMJ.
A compressed load must be at least 8 or 10 grains of the version of AA#2 I'm using! Definitely a density change at some point.

Yeah, a compressed load with A #2 is definitely living on the wild side! Like I said in the previous post though, I think that Accurate went to a lower bulk density than the old 80s/90s formulation as I don't remember the Luger case filling near so much as with the present powder. And that old powder actually made for a very hot, but safe load, which I shot in the Uzi and also occasionally in a Taurus PT-92 with no problems. But you could tell it was pushing the envelope though as you only got about 8-10 reloads out of a case before the case was no good any more. Think of it as a 9MM +P+ load. And anyways, I've pretty much given up trying to push a cartridge to it's limit any more too.

 

[muddocktor]

Oracle;
If you want to get rid of powder that you can't use, simply put it on your flower bed. It makes decent fertilizer, I understand. Really...

FWIW
Dale53

In my case right here, since I know the provenance of the powder, I plan to reuse it and even had an empty Accurate #2 bottle to put it in. But if I didn't know history of a pulled powder, I would either put it in the garden or I would burn it, which actually is kind of fun. When I do burn powder, I do not make big piles but rather some small piles to control the burn.

 

[muddocktor]

I ended up finding 2 more 50 round boxes of the overloads, making a total of 700 rounds. I finished pulling them down the other day and yesterday I loaded back up 300 rounds back with a sensible load of Accurate #2 from the pulled powder. Today I am taking a brush and brushing out the insides of 200 cases thoroughly, as I plan to load them with either BE86 or Power Pistol. I want to make sure I get all that fast powder out of the cases. I have some coated lead bullets I can reload with the rest of the A #2.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I ended up finding 2 more 50 round boxes of the overloads, making a total of 700 rounds. I finished pulling them down the other day and yesterday I loaded back up 300 rounds back with a sensible load of Accurate #2 from the pulled powder. Today I am taking a brush and brushing out the insides of 200 cases thoroughly, as I plan to load them with either BE86 or Power Pistol. I want to make sure I get all that fast powder out of the cases. I have some coated lead bullets I can reload with the rest of the A #2.

With the 9mm pistol loads;

I have found out that BE-86 is a lot better than Unique when it comes to the large 147 gr. plated bullets for top speed and it beats out most of the other powders if you seat the Berry 124 gr, THP at a short OAL of 1.075" that cuts down on powder space.

Have fun with all the new cases and powder you now have.