Simple target .38spcl help

[typetwelve]

I'm doing all the reading I can and while I'm definitely not new to shooting, I am VERY new to reloading.

I had my S&W 627 pro action reworked a few years back and he intentionally left the hammer drop a bit harder so I can use factory loads. He did warn me that the time would come when I really would want to get into reloading so I could use softer primers because of the light action.

I have slowly getting into reloading and I'm now beginning to test the waters fully (going to use a friend's reloading setup before I buy my own). Last weekend, I did pick up some Federal small pistol primers (as I read often how they are lighter than some others), I also bought alb of Unique, Bullseye, and HP38 powder to see which ones I liked better.

On to projectiles. I'm looking for a simple lead WC projectile. Doing some reading, the Speer offerings seem to be really well received:

Speer Bullets 38 Cal (358 Diameter) 158 Grain Lead - MPN: 4628

Speer Bullets 38 Cal (358 Diameter) 148 Grain Lead Hollow - MPN: 4618

This company also came up as one that makes good projectiles:

Oregon Trail Bullet Company | Proud Makers of Laser-Cast(R) & TrueShot(R) Silver Bullet(R)

Oregon Trail Bullet Company | Proud Makers of Laser-Cast(R) & TrueShot(R) Silver Bullet(R)

It seems the .358 dia should work well with my modern S&W, can anyone confirm this? Are .357 dia projectiles better?

Any thoughts on these? Can anyone offer any better suggestions?

 

[FlyFish]

The "standard" .38 Special target load since forever, maybe longer, is 2.7 - 2.8 gr of Bullseye under a 148 gr HBWC. I don't think the brand of bullet matters a great deal, unless you have a very picky revolver or happen to be a world-class shooter. I've loaded many hundreds, maybe thousands, of the Speer bullets, along with a variety of other brands. The Speers seem to have a lot more lube than most others, which makes them just a bit messier to work with, but otherwise they're fine.

Your Mod. 627 is, of course, chambered in .357, not .38 Special. I have a number of revolvers in each caliber. For my .357s, I put up the same target load in .357 cases to avoid the buildup of a ring of crud in each chamber where the shorter .38 case ends. Yeah, you can scrub it out, but it's simpler not to bother with in the first case. Some reloaders bump the powder charge up by .1 or .2 gr to account for the lower pressure in the larger case, but I've never bothered to do that.

 

[OKFC05]

What kind of target shooting? 148gr is usual for very light bullseye loads, 158gr with enough powder to make required power is common in IDPA, ICORE.

If your factory loads fire OK in your revolver, what problem are you trying to solve by switching primers? I have a Model 66 customized with 7# trigger that requires Fed primers that I only use for competition. My carry gun fires anything.

.358 is the usual dia choice for lead or coated bullets in most .38 Spl/ .357 Mag S&W revolvers.

 

[FlyFish]

I see you added another question while I was typing. .38 caliber lead bullets are typically .358 diameter, jacketed bullets are .357. Either should shoot fine in your revolver.

 

[mike campbell]

You've made some great choices so far. Those powders are great and there is no reason NOT to ever use a Federal primer unless they are unavailable or prohibitively expensive. I use Federals at $30-35 /K for shooting DA and for match accuracy but I'll buy ANY primer for <$25/K, such as S&B's from a Cabela's sale. I've never had a failure with them in any revolver shot SA and/or any autoloader.

I load and shoot hundreds of 38/357 loads per year, but I haven't loaded a 148WC in over a decade. Unless you're a bullseye competitor, there are many alternatives and likely a few better depending on your needs.

Consider:
1)lubed cast bullets at 6 cents apiece
or 2) coated cast bullets at 6-7 cents apiece
or 3)plated bullets at 7-8 cents apiece
or 4) bonafide jacketed bullets at 9 cents apiece and up.

Personally, I no longer use 1) because there is little to no cost advantage and it's offset by the black soot that covers my hands and gun
2) is the economic front runner for me and it eliminates the smoke and soot of 1)... many sources
3) I don't use in revolvers because of the lack of a crimping groove ... just like Federal primers, whether you feel you need it or not (crimp jump could be a problem), there's no good reason NOT to have it ... you get it with the cheaper coated bullet. They are an excellent choice for bulk loading autoloaders, but you can spend another 2 cents apiece and have JHP's
4) if you bite the bullet (so to speak) and buy in bulk, you can have 115, 124 and 125JHP's from Roze or Montana Gold delivered to your door for 9 cents each. You MAY find a more accurate load with a premium version at double the cost but, for the level of accuracy needed for action type competition, the cost isn't justified.

Good luck and enjoy the new hobby.

 

[typetwelve]

What kind of target shooting? 148gr is usual for very light bullseye loads, 158gr with enough powder to make required power is common in IDPA, ICORE.

If your factory loads fire OK in your revolver, what problem are you trying to solve by switching primers? I have a Model 66 customized with 7# trigger that requires Fed primers that I only use for competition. My carry gun fires anything.

.358 is the usual dia choice for lead or coated bullets in most .38 Spl/ .357 Mag S&W revolvers.

Sorry...I forgot to mention, after a few thousand rounds of factory ammo, the trigger has lightened to the point where I'm not getting some unreliable primer strikes. Because of this, I decided to go with Federal primers (something my gunsmith had suggested to me back when I had the work done).

EDIT

For now, I'm going to try a 500 order of these:

Oregon Trail Bullet Company | Proud Makers of Laser-Cast(R) & TrueShot(R) Silver Bullet(R)

 

[Nevada Ed]

" ...where I'm not getting some unreliable primer strikes." Quote;

You might take your grips off and see if the spring is set ok or needs adjustment.

The Oregon bullet is a little harder than the Speer's and will do a little better
with medium to full loads, while the softer Speer bullets will do well with
the slower target loads, just in case they might lead your barrel at 1120fps.

Both brands are quality bullets, have fun.

 

[ontargetagain]

Hmm, the Oregon bullet shows a Brinell hardness of 24?? That seems to be an excessively hard bullet that may not have the best expansion in light or medium loads? Maybe the web info is incorrect?

Just for comparison, Missouri bullets offers the 148 WC bullets in lead or coated and are rated at a Brinell of 12. Remeber the Hollow Base Wadcutters have the best expansion at the lower loads, however be careful as using loads from regular 148gr bullets that are not Hollow Base may give you problems in shredding off the Hollow Base skirts and lodging in your barrel.

Have fun, be careful, if not sure of something seek qualified advice!
Best
Karl

 

[SMSgt]

Sorry...I forgot to mention, after a few thousand rounds of factory ammo, the trigger has lightened to the point where I'm not getting some unreliable primer strikes. Because of this, I decided to go with Federal primers (something my gunsmith had suggested to me back when I had the work done).

EDIT

For now, I'm going to try a 500 order of these:

Oregon Trail Bullet Company | Proud Makers of Laser-Cast(R) & TrueShot(R) Silver Bullet(R)

I would have that gun looked at, by a different gunsmith preferably. Light strikes are a gun issue, not a primer issues.

I fired many .38 wadcutters over 231 powder in my Ruger Blackhawk in .38 Spec brass using CCI primers, claimed to be hard by some. Never had a solitary "light" strike. Never had a ring of crust in the cylinder either. Simple cleaning with solvent and a brush left it shiny as new.

 

[johngalt]

I'll second the recommendation of Speer bullets over Oregon Trail, especially for target loads. The Oregon Trail bullets are way too hard, I could never get decent accuracy with them.

I personally choose swaged lead bullets (Hornady 1st, Speer 2nd) over any other bullet - cast, coated, plated, or jacketed. They are the most accurate bullets I have found.

My personal favorite is the 148 gr Hornady HBWC + 2.8 gr Bullseye, in either a .38 special or .357 case.

 

[Forrest r]

The rules are:
There are no rules

Shot countless 1000's of home cast 148gr hbwc's in my ppc revolver.

Not really what you want in a 357. For 30+ years I've reloaded/shot 38spl's in the 357's and have always used standard loads, soft cast bullets (+/- 9bhn) and seated the bullets long in the 38spl cases. Typical button nosed wc's (H&G # 50's) loaded for the 357's.

Do this with ever revolver looking for accuracy. Cast 220gr wc's in a 624 44spl. Loaded flush, seated 1st lube groove, 2nd lube groove, lube in both grooves, 1 groove, tumble lubed.

My latest 357 after a 200round range session with cast/coated bullets.

Typical 6-shot groups @ 50ft with that 357 pictured above using 158gr rfn hp's loaded long in 38spl cases.

2 of my favorite bullets for the 357's loaded in 38spl cases.

Anyone that talks about the "dreaded" ring from 38spl cases is fooling themselves. 357 cases do the same thing just further down in the cylinders. Moving the bullets out in the 38spl cases moves the "dreaded" ring out to the 357 ring line.

Don't count out a rn/rfn bullet designs in the 38spl's. They are just as accurate as the wc's. They just don't cut clean holes in the targets.

My advice:
Get some +/- 12bhn bullets that are coated. use 3.3gr to 3.5gr of bullseye, load them long in the 38spl cases & go out and shoot bugholes with them.

 

[DWalt]

If your firing pin strike is so light as to cause misfires, it's too light. Fix it. There is no, and I mean NO, proof that there is any significant difference in primer impact sensitivity among primers of the same type from different manufacturers. If someone has quantitative laboratory evidence to the contrary (that is, not somebody's anecdotal tale) now's the time to show it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Generally, if I get a no fire in my 38 snub nose and it fires on the second try..........

it was probably because I got lazy and did not seat it all the way.
I noticed a few that I tested on the table, had a little wobble to them, in
a second batch that I did not shoot.
A re-seat, fixed the problem ...............
and yes, they were a loaded case with powder and a bullet!!

Sometimes, real slow, is a good thing, with a single stage.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Your choices are good ones.As a general rule of thumb,Bullseye will be used for target loads under the wc bullet(2.7 or 2.8'll do the trick).HP38(same as 231)at 3.1 to 3.2 will probably do a good job.Both powders can also be used for medium stout(for .38Spl) loads under the 158SWC with only a few tenth grain more.
For good full velocity loads,Unique is the one to go with.Of course,different guns like different loads but that's why I started by saying''as a general rule of thumb''.

 

[mike campbell]

I tried shooting in my laboratory ... the landlord got very upset.

He insisted that I go out in the real world, like the range, and gain some real-world knowledge and experience.

So now, 40 years and some 125,000 handloads later, I have enough "anecdotal evidence" to be convinced that some primers are just harder than others.
Yep, hit 'em with a sledgehammer and they all go off.
Heck, hit 'em with a 10 lb DA strike and they might all go off ... hit 'em with a 7 lb DA strike and in the same gun 1 brand out of 5
will have an unacceptable FTF rate, while another brand will likely have zero FTF's.

Nothing changed but the primer ... seems like a no-brainer to me. Why would I give up a sweet, 7 lb trigger pull like the champions
use just so I can shoot every brand of primer.

I have no laboratory evidence that the sun will come up tomorrow, but I have $100 if anybody wants to bet.

 

[lrrifleman]

@OP,

First, you are talking two different types of wadcutters: swaged versus hardcast. Both have attributes that serve different functions.

Swaged HBWC bullets are designed to deform when fired. Usually, the skirt expands under the expanding gases of the gunpowder to cause the skirt to expand and "catch" the rifling to maximize accuracy.

Meanwhile, a hardcast wadcutter is cast hard enough so that if it hits bone, it should penetrate the bone. Fast wadcutters don't have a skirt to expand, so it needs to be sized to properly for the throat and bore. Hardcast bullets require a bit more work to get a higher degree of accuracy than swaged HBWC bullets.

One major downside to swaged HBWC bullets is it they are driven too fast they not only pose a leading issue, the skirt can separate from the solid wadcutter, providing a potential hazardous bore obstruction.

 

[Rocket3]

The rules are:
There are no rules

Well said my friend!


Follow the basic info from a good manual and have fun.

 

[Mcfoto]

If your still looking for projectiles, I would recommend Blue Bullets. I'm partial to 147 gr. round noses but I shoot ICORE so reloading on the clock is an issue. And yes, action-tuned revolvers are happier with well seated Federal primes which is why I hand prime my revolver loads.