Single shot 22lr top break extractor problem

[jc_dutch]

Hello
I am new to the forum, and also to antique guns. I have a S&W single shot top break "model 1891" in 22lr. I have an issue that I think is related to the extractor cam. When opening the gun the barel jams at mid stroke with the extractor half out. This pistol had a new extractor cam from a 38 top break. Are they really compatible ? I cannot find any pictures on the web of this pistol disassembled, or parts drawings.
Thank you very much on any help or idea of what is the problem.

 

[rct269]

Well, if (IF) the extractor cam is from the Model of '91 .38 revolver (.38 SA 3rd), then it's identical. And if it isn't, then I don't know.

Someone who may is Jim Barton ([email protected]).

As to schematics/gunsmithing, Chicoine's books may help; but they deal with the (parent) revolvers---although the text may treat with SS's as well----I've never had occasion to find out. A PM with your snail mail address will get you copies of any/all Chicoine material.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[jc_dutch]

Thanks !! The main info is that they are identical between the single shot and 38. I have Chicoine's book but the single shot is not described, so I was wondering. Now I still have the jamming issue bur this cause is out. If you have ideas of other cause I take them ! Thank you also for offering the shipping of documents, but I am in France…

jean charles

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!

 

[rct269]

Okay, well first off you say "book", and I said "books". One tells you how to disassemble/assemble. Another tells you how to fix things. And the others tell you other things. All I've ever needed to do, or wanted to do is take 'em apart, give 'em a bath, and put 'em back together. I'm good at that. I don't know beans from apple butter about fixing them----other than to put 'em in a box, and take them to my gunsmith-----who up and moved to Colorado not too long ago.

That said, I know about fixing other things---and the first thing to do is the diagnostic routine---so let's start there. The ejector cam is an assembly---three pieces-----a big one, a little one, and a little bity spring. I sort of know what the big piece does---and sort of know how it does it--sort of. I don't have the first clue what the other two pieces do, nor how they do it; but if figures they do something important---or they wouldn't be there; so this is going to start off slow. Do you have all three pieces? Are they properly assembled? If yes, I'm tapped out---nothing more to offer--other than copies from a book. If no, or don't know, I can tell you how they're supposed to go together.

So, back to the books: Do you have Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West----which is the one you need---maybe---probably. And as far as being in France goes, all that means is whatever I might send to you might take a little longer to get there than if you were across the road.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[mmaher94087]

In the absence of the 'gun-in-hand' I can only offer a possible fix. Because I don't know your level of gunsmith abilities I will try to keep things simple. It is not meant to be demeaning; only informative. You stated that the extractor cam had been replaced for reasons unknown; I can only guess that it was not reassembled correctly.

If it were my Single Shot, I'd remove the barrel from the frame and pull out the extractor cam. Then make sure the extractor moves freely by grasping the flat extractor and pulling it away from the barrel to its limit and let it snap back into position on the barrel. If all this works as designed then pull the extractor away from the barrel, as before, and hold it then reinstall the cam making sure the 'arm' of the cam is facing Up towards the barrel rib and, at the same time, facing the muzzle (front of the barrel). Gently lower the extractor without repositioning the cam and place the barrel back into the frame and secure it with the hinge "Joint Pivot" and screw. I hope this will work.

 

[model3sw]

If it turns out to be anything beyond a "simple" fix, you may contact me directly. I've been repairing mechanical issues on top break S&Ws for 30+ years.

I'm partial to Mike Maher's advice. If the replaced part matched, exactly, to the broken part ... it was likely not reassembled correctly.

 

[glowe]

Welcome. Does the barrel have a serial number? I ask because there were lots of unfinished barrels sold by the S&W factory years ago "in-the-white", without the extractor assembly. The simple answer already stated above is that any 38 DA extractor assembly will fit into the barrel, but the actual extractor has to be welded onto the rod, since it would have originally had a star. One also has to provide a collar that is made to accept the rod shape, from hex shape of the late 38 DA revolvers and round with a pin slot in the other models. The rod is surrounded by a spring and the assembly, plus a plunges at the end, and is held in place by a collar that is secured by a pin only. I have a couple of images of the assembly out of the barrel because I made such an assembly for one of those surplus barrels several years ago. A kind and gracious member shared these photos with me, so I was able to fabricate an assembly using a 38 DA extractor. It is time to pass them on to help you understand what the assembly looks like and how it works.

I think that the issue might be that either the spring, plunger, or rod/collar interaction is causing binding. When the extractor jams, can you pull it further with you fingers? I can only guess that the assembly might not be made with close enough tolerance to work properly.

 

[jc_dutch]

Thank you all for these very precious inputs and documents ! And you are right Mike to give me very basic instructions. Although I have some metal working skills, I am very very new to "gunsmithing". I have also a top break 38 and I played mixing the barels and frames between the two (also switching the cams) and the only configuration that did not work was the complete 22. And yes when it jams (barel about 45° down) I can pull the extractor manualy to the end of its stroke. So I first guessed that maybe the original cam of the 22 was shorter for the shorter shells. I havent yet disassembled the extractor but I understand it is the next thing to do. Thanks a lot Gary for these pictures !! It will allow to work on this and try to make it right. My gun is mismatched betwen frame and barel serial Numbers. I realize now that it might have been put together from parts and poorly done. The frame is 4408 and barel is 18772.
thanks again
jean charles

 

[jc_dutch]

My problem is solved ! The gun operates flawlessly and smoothly ! I am very happy and wanted to thank all of you who posted precious information and made me confident it was just an adjustment issue. The cam "arm" was actually a bit too long. I gently filed it and everything went ok... I was first affraid to do so because I did not even know it was the correct part, and also, being in France, finding a replacement part would have been very difficult in case I scraped it.
thanks again !
jean charles

 

[mmaher94087]

Bravo!!! I love happy endings.