Single Stage or Progressive?

[jj2am44]

Just wondering how many of you out there prefer to reload 308 or 223 on a single stage. Having reloaded for over 30 years-handgun only-I recently bought a Remington 308 and a Colt AR 15 in 223. I was wondering if the rifle rounds on the progressive press-in this case a Dillon 650-would be as good as the ones reloaded on a single stage-paying attention to case length and all the other variables of a bottle necked cartridge. I probably wont shoot more than 100 rounds of 308 at one time, althought the round count of the 223 would be a tad greater. I could pay greater attention to the dimensions of the bottle necked cartridges in my quest for accuracy, rather than the volume of the 650. What say you?

 

[max]

I believe the Dillon will do just fine, mine sure does.

 

[RussellD]

I load .223 on the Dillon and my .308 on a Forster Coax. A Lot of excellent shooters load both on the Dillon and can shoot better than I can. With the factory barrel and actions-your Dillon can load more accurate ammo than 95% of shooters can show on target.

 

[jj2am44]

Do you check for excessive headspace on either round?? If so, when in the process? I recently bought the Hornady headspace gauge and don't want to get into trouble with excessive headspace on either round.

 

[SMSgt]

My single-stage press has been loading .223s and .30-06s as well as many handgun rounds for over 30 years. I put far more attention to detail in my rifle loads than I do my handgun loads as things such as .01 grn of powder or a bit of COL change doesn't really affect handgusn rounds but can make a huge difference at 300 yards in the -06.

Progressives are all about quantity. How many rifle rounds do you need to reload in a session? That should guide your decision.

 

[Cdog]

I'm all about quality. I've been down the progressive road and it just ain't for me.

Case prep is a necessity for me. I can't do what I deem necessary and get the good from any level of automation.

I'm OCD about my loading. I don't knock those who aren't, but accept the fact that much like Popeye, "I am what I am."

 

[glider1]

My theory is that people who load on a progressive tend to shoot alot more ammo, single stage guys try to make every shot count. It's like the difference between a guy with a hi-cap 9 and a guy with a revolver. That's my half baked theory, actually ya probably need both. Hell some of the bench rest guys at our club will shoot a round and then reload that round and shoot it again, they go to the range with 5 rounds and shoot 50 times.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

How about something in between? I sometimes use a Lee Classic Turret press for loading 223 ammo and it works just fine. If you're loading only 100 at a time I doubt the expense of a Dillon Progressive press can be justified but that's just my opinion.

 

[Rule3]

I use a turret for both rifle and handgun.

On the rifle I convert it to single stage. It depends on how much you shoot. In a bolt action 223 I can get by with 100 rounds, 308 or 30-06, 20 or 40 rounds. In a semi auto 223 well you know how fast you can chew up ammo So if you shoot a lot of ammo the Dillon would certainly be what you want. I can not afford to shoot that much rifle ammo.

So it depends on how and what you shoot. To me 223 is a big pain in the arse to reload, so I go slow and load basically single stage, hand drop every load, after checking every case, in a gauge, trimmed etc etc. I still own all my guns, rifles and fingers.

 

[Twoboxer]

Consistency is required for accuracy. The question is how consistent does YOUR ammo have to be in order to be as accurate as YOU can be with YOUR rifle.

Secondly, how large are your batch sizes, and do you require cartridge changes? If you reload 100 of X and then 100 of Y . . . by the time you have set up and afjusted your progressive, you could have hand-weighed and completed the job on your single stage.

Personally, I resolved this (for now) with a Hornady Lock-n-Load Classic, and a Pact Dispenser/Scale. There is a fair amount of case prep for 223 and 30-06, so why not clean first and size/decap on a single stage? I tumble clean again, then I take the opportunity to hand-prime (which I prefer btw). Powder charges are accurate, there is no slop in the press like there is in the Lee Classic Turret and Dillion Progressives, and the change-overs take seconds.

Does it matter? Dunno. But I enjoy putting the "effort" in, and I don't think I'm losing a lot of time in the process. I still use The LCT for pistol.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Years ago in the late 1980's, I loaded 20,000 rounds of 223. It was on a Dillion 450 that had manual index, manual primer feed, and manual powder drop. The choice of componets is important, on that batch WW748 powder was used. I still have about 6,000 rounds left and tested them a few years ago. They were origanally loaded to use in a Mini 14 and the best groups that gun (Stainless) ever produced was about 5" at 100yards with scope. when I tested them for accuracy I used a Cooper 21 on a rest with a Leo. 6.5x20 veri-X III scope. At 100 yards it put 3 shots in the same hole, not once but 5 times for me and between 2 other shooters 5 more times at the same setting. Yes a progressive can produce real good ammo. However, nowdays I'm shooting long range 308 out to 1000 yards, the powder I'm using is Varget and I can't get it to drop comsistantly from any of 4 different powder measures, so I weigh each load. Years ago I had a 147gr FMJ load with 748 that I loaded on the Dillion (upgraded with auto primer feed and casemouth activated powder drop), they were better than most ammo I coud buy(except 1973 Isreal 147 fmj, this stuff shot better than any match ammo I ever bought). Now days there is some real good 308 on the market- Hornady 168 TAP is real, real good out to 1000. But by the Case was $1.35 a round! So I'm loading 308 on a T-7 turrit and weighing the charges. If I was only shooting 600 yards or less It would be progressive a ball powder (ww748, H335, H322, or Benchmark) all the way!!! Ivan

 

[msinc]

I load pistol ammo on a progressive. I do too much stuff to my rifle brass to be able to load it on a progressive. Too many steps would get left out for me...how would you decrimp primers, deburr flash holes, trim and deburr the mouth{can do it but expensive}, outside neck turn and anneal the cases??? By the time I do all that as a series of separate operations I might as well throw powder and seat the bullet with an arbor press.....progressives have their place and can certainly produce just as accurate ammo for rifles as other methods at times but if you are trying to get ammo that will shoot as good as it can it's probably not the way to do it.

 

[Bart45]

I like a single stage - quality versus quantity. The only issues I've ever seen have come from folks using progressive presses. In both instances, a double charge from inattention to procedure.

 

[all357mag]

DILLON RL550B! 'Nuff said!

 

[AzRedleg]

I load .223 on my Hornady Lock and Load AP. I use to load rifle only on a single stage until I decided to load some on both and compare the cartridges that came off each press. I couldn't measure a discernible difference in consistency between the two and they both shot sub 1 MOA groups. Yes, I still have some case prep but LC brass is usually good for at least three loads between trimmings. The Hornady progressive is every bit as solid as my single stage and allows me to load up large lots at a time. If you are a benchrest shooter then there are a lot of other case prep steps that probably make loading on a progressive less than practical.