SJHP

[Knightrider03m]

I just picked up a Model 19. I know I can not use lite loads for the gun and I can't really find any ammo that spark my taste. I bought some ammo from the great place of walmart and they had Federal 158gr SJHP ammo. I love the way it shot but was wondering how good his SJHP for duty carry? Plus as I understand it, the soft tip of the bullet should come off and expose the hollow point of the bullet once it leaves the barrel? Is this true?

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

If I'm understanding your post correctly, you are saying you've heard not to use light loads- meaning the 125 grainers, and that's correct. You can fire them, but they are very hard on M-19's in the forcing cone area (rear end of the barrel shank that faces the cylinder). Some have even had their forcing cones cracked from the 125's.

No, the tip doesn't come off of the sjhp after leaving the barrel, and whoever told you that should learn more and talk less. There's nowhere near enough velocity for that to happen. It can happen to a pointed soft point high velocity rifle round though. 158 grain bullets were the standard weight for many years in both the .38 Special, then later the .38/44 HV, and finally the .357 Magnum before the 125's came into vogue, and will do a fine job as a defensive round. They are also much better for your guns' longevity.

The 19 was really designed as the ideal LEO weapon, and was intended to be practiced with occasionally with full power ammo, and carried with same. It was intended to be used with .38's for practice on a regular basis though.

Treat it right and it'll do the same for you.

 

[mgjohn]

I just picked up a Model 19. I know I can not use lite loads for the gun and I can't really find any ammo that spark my taste.****You can use any 38sp load in this gun that you want.

I bought some ammo from the great place of walmart and they had Federal 158gr SJHP ammo. I love the way it shot but was wondering how good his SJHP for duty carry? ****158g ammo in a (I assume a 4" gun) is a little heavy for duty carry. Most police departments used to issue 125g ammo.

Plus as I understand it, the soft tip of the bullet should come off and expose the hollow point of the bullet once it leaves the barrel? Is this true?****No. Nothing will alter the bullet once it is fired untill it hits something.

 

[handgunner356]

There are several defense loads out there that wil work fine in your gun. The Remington Golden Saber 125gr is a medium velocity load that works well, the Winchesther 145gr Silvertip and the 135gr Gold Dots are others. Just avoid full house 110-125gr magnums and you'll be fine.

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

The 158JHP/SJHP loads should be avoided for SD purposes as you are almost always guaranteed overpenetration, but feel free to use them for target/plinking/hunting. If you want SD ammo, stick with 125JHP or 110JHP (my preference, in that order).

 

[Knightrider03m]

What about going with the Remington 180gr load?

 

[147_Grain]

Besides the popular 125-gr. HP in 357 Mag for self-defense, Barnes makes an outstanding copper jacketed HP that performs very well in penetration and EXPANSION. Federal's loading for civilians is one to give serious consideration to as the sharp copper pedals do a lot of cutting to create a wide and deep wound channel:

Federal:
** 140-gr. Barnes Expander (P357XB1)


Most of Barne's copper bullets for this caliber are in 125-gr., but its big brother (140-gr.) clearly has the edge in performance through various media.

See also:

Corbon – Dakota Ammo:
** 125-gr. DPX [Barnes XPB] Copper HP (DPX357125-20)

 

[weyerbacher]

So the WWB 110 grain JHPs are too much for a model 19? They do about 1200 fps or so. Much less than the 1450fps that most 125s do. Are the 110s just as destructive?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The 158JHP/SJHP loads should be avoided for SD purposes as you are almost always guaranteed overpenetration, but feel free to use them for target/plinking/hunting.

I would rethink that statement. You are no more likely to over-penetrate with a 158gr bullet than a 125gr bullet when shot from a .357 Magnum.

 

[Knightrider03m]

I just ordered Fiocchi 158gr HP. I still like the weight of the 158gr in that type of a caliber IMO

I also ordered some Federal 147gr for my new .38 air-weight

 

[Andy Griffith]

I have shot and still have some of the Fiocchi 158 HP's- and it seems very hot! It does shoot very well out of a 6" model 19 and although I've only shot a couple of boxes, I think it will do any self defense application.

Another one I like is the Georgia State Patrol load of 145gr. silvertips they used to use in the 4" model 66's- but finding them at retail (or any 50rd. box of Winchester .357's right now) is like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack!

 

[jlanecole]

I really like the Fiocchi Extrema with the XTP bullet. It also shoots great out of my Marlin carbine. The XTP seems to get a lot of bad press in the self-defense realm for being designed as a 'hunting-only' bullet, and too tough to expand reliably. I'm not sure that's true, but it certainly seems to be an accurate bullet, at least out of my guns.

 

[38-44HD45]

I would rethink that statement. You are no more likely to over-penetrate with a 158gr bullet than a 125gr bullet when shot from a .357 Magnum.

Arch, I must disagree. With hot 125gr.JHPs and SJHPs, overpenetration on torso shots is very unlikely. With many 158s, it is rather likely. There is a common misconception in the world that overpenetration dangers increase with increases in velocity. With bullets that expand reliably, the opposite is true. 158s are slower and less likely to expand, so are more likely to overpenetrate. Now, with something like 158gr. Gold Dots, I would not worry a whit.

As far as never shooting hot 125gr. loads in a Model 19, much ink and many electrons have been wasted, and the issue is WAY overblown. While I usually keep more moderate loads in my K-frame magnums, it is because they are more controllable and won't wear the gun quite as rapidly, not because of any fear of instant frame damage or catastrophic failure.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Here is a link that may help clear up some of the debate over penetration. All else being equal, heavier will out penetrate lighter every time, but things are seldom equal.

If you look at al the stats here you'll notice that the 125's are represented in far more shootings, but percentages are what they are, and most everything is fairly equal.

357 Magnum Stopping Power

 

[Sully]

I have shot and still have some of the Fiocchi 158 HP's- and it seems very hot! It does shoot very well out of a 6" model 19 and although I've only shot a couple of boxes, I think it will do any self defense application.

Another one I like is the Georgia State Patrol load of 145gr. silvertips they used to use in the 4" model 66's- but finding them at retail (or any 50rd. box of Winchester .357's right now) is like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack!

If ya find you cant do without them...RELOAD them...thats what I do. Some loads I ador..for 38; 357; 45 ACP and now ( 44 mag soon)...so when I settle on what i REALLY like...I just gear up and load a bunch of them.

 

[147_Grain]

So the WWB 110 grain JHPs are too much for a model 19? They do about 1200 fps or so. Much less than the 1450fps that most 125s do. Are the 110s just as destructive?

The WWB 110-gr. in not a good load for SD when there are much better options available.

For YOUR setup with an older handgun in GOOD condition, I'd use the standard pressure 158-gr. FBI load and consider the following recommendation from Buffalo Bore which is a mild load for your Model 19:

Buffalo Bore: Also see other +P loads with 158-gr. LSWCHP (FBI / Chicago Load)
** 158-gr. +P LSWCHP (20A) @ 1,162 fps in 4” barrel.


As an alternative - depending on your surroundings, their low-recoiling hardcast wadcutter might also be considered:

* 150-gr. Standard Pressure Hardcast Wadcutter (20D) @ 1,005 fps in 4” barrel. For barrier penetration & protection in the mountains.

 

[38-44HD45]

So the WWB 110 grain JHPs are too much for a model 19? They do about 1200 fps or so. Much less than the 1450fps that most 125s do. Are the 110s just as destructive?

No, the WW 110s are pussycats compared to the hottest 125s, which are also not too hot for a K-magnum in moderate doses, contrary to popular myth. However, the 110s may have a propensity for underpenetration, and all of them I've shot (Fed. and WW) have been flashy as hell. In my K-magnums, I usually keep one of the following, all .357s: 158gr. Speer Gold Dots, 135 gr. Speer Short Barrel, or Remington Golden Saber 125s. If it is a .357 in my possession, then it is going to be loaded with .357 ammo if there is any chance it will be used for self-defense.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Arch, I must disagree. With hot 125gr.JHPs and SJHPs, overpenetration on torso shots is very unlikely. With many 158s, it is rather likely. There is a common misconception in the world that overpenetration dangers increase with increases in velocity. With bullets that expand reliably, the opposite is true. 158s are slower and less likely to expand, so are more likely to overpenetrate. Now, with something like 158gr. Gold Dots, I would not worry a whit.

As far as never shooting hot 125gr. loads in a Model 19, much ink and many electrons have been wasted, and the issue is WAY overblown. While I usually keep more moderate loads in my K-frame magnums, it is because they are more controllable and won't wear the gun quite as rapidly, not because of any fear of instant frame damage or catastrophic failure.

I didn't assume the increase in velocity would cause over-penetration. I said neither was likely to over-penetrate.
The additional velocity of the 125gr bullet would speed up the expansion and the slower velocity of the 158gr bullet might cause less expansion but the 158gr bullet has less velocity to begin so it's a wash, thus my statement, "You are no more likely to over-penetrate with a 158gr bullet than a 125gr bullet when shot from a .357 Magnum."