Small Rifle Primers and AR15----NEW QUESTIONS

[SW CQB 45]

I have not loaded for an AR style rifle in sometime.

I had always had ammo supply working as an LEO. with the shortage....this may mean an end to my practice....so I need to start loading.

I have quite a bit of AA 2230 and about 2,000 in slugs and plenty of once fired brass.

Since the past 20 years, my main reloading has been with handgun....

I want to get in line to order some small rifle primers and play the waiting game. I will not fall into the price gouging.

I have always been a fan of CCI primers for semi auto handguns and was thinking about the same for a semi auto rifle.

should I find a deal on a case of primers.....is there one particular brand that is notoriously not good for ARs?

thanks in advance

 

[Rule3]

I use whatever I have. Wolf, CCI, Winchester. I guess now there are "AR specific" primers but do not know if that is just ad hype.

I think with the way things are, any ones you can get will have to do. They are small rifles and I have not seen a warning not to use in AR's.

 

[VictorSmalls]

I have only used CCI and Federal for AR's but no problems with either.

 

[TexasRider]

The CCI will serve you well.

The military style primers work and they take a bit more strike to ignite. They are used to account for the nature of the AR firing pin to prevent a slam fire.

The new Winchesters are smaller than the older ones so if you had hogged out primer pockets they could be looser. The CCI should be a bit larger and maybe fit tighter.

Depending on your set up, there are some progressive machines that dont work as well with some primers. Mine doesnt like the Federals as much.

Right now though , the great primer unavailability is back on again as you know. So you might have to work around with some others too.

 

[gmiller0737]

I have a fair supply of Standard Winchester Small Rifle Primers I haven't tried them in AR ammo yet (would prefer the CCI Military Type) will these do?

 

[WR Moore]

CCI does make a mil-spec small rifle primer. It's their #41 primer and the footnote states to use data for magnum primers. That seems a bit much for the small case capacity of the .223/5.56mm. On the other hand, I use Remington 7 1/2 benchrest primers for my .223 accuracy loads and its considered a hotter than standard primer. Shrug.

While I've never personally owned an AR, I've known quite a few folks who only shot reloads. They didn't have any concerns about primer brand/type. I'll also note that the vast majority of .223 isn't loaded with any AR specific primers and the ammo must be usable in any firearm produced under SAAMI standards. Unless your issue ammo was loaded to military standards (or maybe produced by an ATK company-CCI, Federal, Speer-ATK supplies virtually all the small arms ammo for the DOD) they're probably not using mil-spec primers either.

The few times I function fired ARs with my handloads, I had no problems. I personally wouldn't have an issue with the WW SR. If you've got a couple rounds of whatever you're issued chamber a round or two and eject them without firing. Do the same with a couple of handloads with the other primers and compare primer markings. There is going to be some slight marking of the primers, if there's no substantial difference you're probably OK. Or, you can go the the Olin/Winchester website and ask their tech folks. They'd probably be far more reliable than whatever you find here.

 

[MichiganScott]

The CCI mil-spec primer is nothing less than a slightly less sensitive CCI small rifle mag primer.

The only time I ever heard of anyone having any primer issues was when Winchester switched to a nickle plated primer from straight brass. They made them a bit too sensitive and slam fires were common. However, I haven't heard about it being an issue for a number of years.

 

[358156hp]

I have a fair supply of Standard Winchester Small Rifle Primers I haven't tried them in AR ammo yet (would prefer the CCI Military Type) will these do?

That's what I've been using for decades now. The only SR primer I avoid is the Remington 6-1/2, which is only for use in lower pressure rifle cases. To get rid of the few thousand of them I have, I've been using them in place of small pistol magnum primers.

 

[358156hp]

I have not loaded for an AR style rifle in sometime.

I had always had ammo supply working as an LEO. with the shortage....this may mean an end to my practice....so I need to start loading.

I have quite a bit of AA 2230 and about 2,000 in slugs and plenty of once fired brass.

Since the past 20 years, my main reloading has been with handgun....

I want to get in line to order some small rifle primers and play the waiting game. I will not fall into the price gouging.

I have always been a fan of CCI primers for semi auto handguns and was thinking about the same for a semi auto rifle.

should I find a deal on a case of primers.....is there one particular brand that is notoriously not good for ARs?

thanks in advance

You may need to simply buy whatever you can get, except Remington 6-1/2s of course.

 

[DWalt]

The idea behind the CCI #41 small rifle primer is to prevent possible slam fires. It's basically a milspec primer, and I don't think it is a magnum primer, just less sensitive than a regular primer. Basically it's the same primer that Lake City uses on military 5.56mm cartridges. CCI also sells a #34 large rifle primer, same idea, for use in M1 Garand, etc.

See: http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30

 

[125JHP]

I'd avoid the Rem 6 1/2 and the Wolf Standard SR (copper colored).

I have observed slam fires with someone using the Wolf and I hear the 6 1/2 can be pierced by the AR firing pin but have never seen it. They were supposedly made for 22 Jet and not general SR use. They say to use the Rem 7 1/2 instead.

 

[MichiganScott]

The idea behind the CCI #41 small rifle primer is to prevent possible slam fires. It's basically a milspec primer, and I don't think it is a magnum primer, just less sensitive than a regular primer. Basically it's the same primer that Lake City uses on military 5.56mm cartridges. CCI also sells a #34 large rifle primer, same idea, for use in M1 Garand, etc.

See: CCI Ammunition - Primer Details

At the very bottom of the page you link they state that you should use magnum primer data with the milspec.

 

[Simmer down]

I loaded up some 223s with small pistol primers by accident, CCIs or Win, can't remember. I hated the idea of taking them all apart so I used them as they were. I couldn't see any difference between the small pistols and the small rifle primers. I typically shot paper at 50 yrds or less and it was no big deal.

 

[SW CQB 45]

NEW QUESTIONS

thanks...I am going to push for CCI small rifle but it something else pops up...I will look into it.

My load will be standard ball velocities for training.

my next question for down the road.....

I have AAAAALOT of once fired brass.

My training will mainly consist of drills within the 25 yd mark and occasional distance out to 160 yds.

for just general loading

is there a need to size once fired brass?

is there a need to separate .223 / 5.56 brass?

is there a need to anneal the case necks?

Whats is the best case lube for loading lots of 50-100 at a time?

I will be using a Dillon 550

The last time I dabbled with AR loading was in the early 90s. I only loaded a few for testing and they were accurate with a 20 inch.

if someone has a link for a good process for AR loads, please let me know. I got alot of time behind a loader.....but just for handgun.

thanks in advance

 

[91kid]

I size all of my brass
I load lake city 5.56 brass in the same batch with .223 federal
case lube I prefer the rcbs stuff in there pump spray bottle less goey then a pad and I can still spray more then one case at a time..

I use cci small rifle magnums with win748 powder, and I use cci standard small rifle primers with my new imr powder load..

I've never had to trim a 223 case and I've used some of my brass 2-3 times already

 

[SW CQB 45]

91kid....thanks for the info.

 

[91kid]

Always happy to help someone out

 

[Ron H.]

is there a need to size once fired brass?

is there a need to separate .223 / 5.56 brass?

is there a need to anneal the case necks?

Whats is the best case lube for loading lots of 50-100 at a time?

Sir, taking your questions in order:

1. Yes. Full-length resize every time. You can get away with just neck sizing bolt gun brass that's going back into the same gun, but it's not a good idea with a semi-auto.

2. Probably not, but I do it anyway. Even though I've seen no significant weight difference between GI 5.56 brass and commercial .223, I just don't like to mix brass for rifle loads.

3. I don't know about "best," but I prefer Imperial sizing wax. It's easy to apply exactly what you need, exactly where you need it--and probably more importantly, none where you don't want it.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[TexasRider]

Following on to what Ron correctly stated above and adding a couple of points too.

1.) Sizing. Yes you will need to re-size very time. Further you may find that you need a small base sizer die for the AR. Some do and some dont.

2.) Separating cases. Yes. One additional reason is that much or all of the 5.56 will have crimped in primers. You will have to swage the primer pockets on those cases , after removing the spent primer, for the first reloading in order to seat a new primer in those cases.

3.) Annealing. While I dont do it, those that do say they get long case life. I dont want to spend the time to do it.

4.) Case lube. As above, the Imperial is tops. The Dillon is a good spray on lube. Another very good solution is using a carbide sizer die. You can still use the smallest application of lube and it runs slick.

 

[SW CQB 45]

thanks for the information.

I worded the question wrong about resizing. Yes, I will resize. I have Dillon dies.

I meant trimming a case.

I will separate cases....forgot about the crimped primers and those would be a pain should I encounter one and did not removed the crimp.