Smith P&R vs crush barrel? Life of the gun?

[usmc66]

Hey guys, this is the second post im starting, for those who didn't catch my first one Im a former Marine 29 years old and getting big into older smiths, which you dont see alot in my generation, which is all about glocks and AR's. I prefer the quality in the action over a lot of the newer smiths especially since the trigger locks. Unfortunately I'm still learning since I was born (1985) after most of these pistols were made. I get that the pinned and recessed are more desirable. I guess the term for the other type of barrel is a crushed barrel. Can anyone tell me if there's any ups or downs between the two types of barrels, why they switch?? Is there going to be any longevity difference? The model I currently have is a 19-6 2inch. This is definitely been a great gun, I have put it through serious hell, I think I got about 7-8,000rds (90% fmj rds) through it easily since I have had it for about 3 years. About 600rds have been magnums. It was my the gun I used while I started reloading and experimenting so it has been subject to many squibs and extremely hot magnum rounds that I tested. Its always functioned flawlessly and still all original parts. I shot it so much that when I popped the cylinder out to reload the whole piece fell off the gun because the screw loosened. Bluing is 98% still. I hate to even admit I stupidly used a screwdriver as a punch when I squibbed it at the range during my start in reloading. What can I say I was pissed, stupid, and like most Marines I improvised. It gouged the metal a bit between the rifling in the barrel. I still use it in my minor league competition shoots where I have it hit targets at 25 yards in standing position and I can SOMETIMES get a 4-5inch grouping, Which I feel is pretty damn good doing standing at 25 yards with a 2inch gun! So my question is how much life do you guys think I still have left in it? What was the longevity in these guns made by smith at the time? All parts are still original so far, I'll keep shooting it till either the rifling is gone or the barrel cracks.

 

[Art Doc]

In theory there should be no difference in longevity. S&W does seem to have had a lot of problems with barrels after they dropped the pin, but I don't think it has anything to do with the gun wearing out. It's more of a catastrophic failure situation. If the barrel doesn't fail after a few thousand rounds I suspect you will never have any problems.

 

[Laketime]

I'll take the P&R over the none.But I have to be honest here. The only barrel that has ever loosened up on me was a pinned model 66.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I've still not learned when it happened but supposedly S&W kept adding the pin even after switching to the crush fit barrels. I wouldn't think of it as a quality issue though. Remember that the Colt Python NEVER had a pinned in place barrel and those are long since know as accuracy top notch rated guns. I don't think barrel failure had anything to do with how it was installed so much as how it was designed with that thinner flat milled section at the bottom of the forcing cone. With the advent of the 125gr red hot loads it seems that's when people started reporting the barrel failures. There is quite an energy difference in jacketed bullets hitting the forcing cone and those new at the time 125gr bullets moving at warp speed into'ed a whole new level of energy whacking that forcing cone that the gun was never designed around. I suspect that any tiny flaw in the steel, any slightly accelerated wear from an uncleaned barrel, any slight build up of lead in the forcing cone, or any misalignment of the cylinder to the barrel and this cracked barrel with the hot ammo started to happen.

 

[Art Doc]

Some 19s broke using 158 ammo. Others broke using 38 Special target ammo. So much for the hot 125 grain Magnum ammo theory.

I still think it was a problem with the guns.

 

[usmc66]

well it sounds like a quality control issue if they are having issues with the barrels like that. Like I said I have had zero issues with mine and I will keep shooting till the barrel rifling is gone or the barrel itself cracks, Im only curious to find if these guns can go 50,000rds before rifling is gone, I know how Glocks and berettas have records of 100,000rds being shot through them but I don't think ill get there with this gun anytime soon.

 

[cmj8591]

My question is how are pined barrels and crush barrels going to compare with the new, two piece barrels as far as longevity goes?

 

[Laketime]

well it sounds like a quality control issue if they are having issues with the barrels like that. Like I said I have had zero issues with mine and I will keep shooting till the barrel rifling is gone or the barrel itself cracks, Im only curious to find if these guns can go 50,000rds before rifling is gone, I know how Glocks and berettas have records of 100,000rds being shot through them but I don't think ill get there with this gun anytime soon.

Hicock45 has 70.000 rounds through a 29-2 . His videos will show him ringing steel at 200 yards with that 44 magnum.

 

[Randy Bill]

I can't add any info regarding the first part of the question but will contribute that the life of a gun and the shooter are typically extended by the person intending to handload taking the time to carefully study the safety and pressure portions of at least two reloading manuals. Emphasized will be the inherent danger of a "squib" round in any repeating firearm!

 

[Jim NNN]

Hicock45 has 70.000 rounds through a 29-2 . His videos will show him ringing steel at 200 yards with that 44 magnum.

I saw one of those videos with his .44 for the first time the other day. That was fun...and to see him make that long shot. Of course, he's a pretty good shot. Seems like a nice guy, too, which may be why his videos are so widely viewed.

 

[Alk8944]

Just for the record, S&W barrels, just like Colts and others, have always been fit to be retained by torque, just like any threaded fastener of any type. The term "crush fit" is somewhat idiotic as there was really no change except deletion of the barrel pin which was always superfluous. The barrel pin never served to lock the barrel, but to be a safety backstop in case the threads did loosen. Barrel loosening does happen on all types of firearms from time to time. S&W simply deleted the pin as it wasn't necessary and saved on manufacturing costs!

Think about fasteners on your cars, like ball joints and tie rod ends. These are all tightened to a high torque specification but are locked with a cotter pin as a safety. The cotter pin doesn't hold the nut on! Some manufacturers have dispensed with the cotter pin because it wasn't really needed if the nut was installed correctly

 

[Engine49guy]

The pin was kinda like safety wire but also prevents the torque of a spinning bullet from canting the barrel .

 

[shawn mccarver]

Every time there is a thread on this topic, I say pretty much what Alk8944 just said in Post 11.

There is simply no difference in the barrels or the way they are installed after the pin was deleted.

There are many threads on this topic and there is no point in re-typing the same old lengthy posts over and over again.

 

[gunny4053]

My question is how are pined barrels and crush barrels going to compare with the new, two piece barrels as far as longevity goes?

As for longevity, there will be little if any difference between them. There are, however, many who feel the two piece barrels are a little more accurate, because the tension created when they are installed tends to reduce flex in the barrel. Opinions vary, but the guns I've had with two piece barrels, have been very accurate shooters.

 

[jaymoore]

The major difference between pinned and not being something folk can't see without removing the barrel. At some point S&W added a long tapering "thread relief" ending at the shoulder which bears against the frame. The down side to that relief is that some barrels which could have used a few thouandths more off the shoulder get "grunted" into position anyway. Bad because it results in a small bulge in the bore at the frame junction. For a SD or general purpose gun used primarily with jacketed ammo the user will never notice. But it may degrade accuracy or instigate leading in some cases. No affect on the life of the revolver, but may be annoying to some.

The threads end in a full diameter section just short of the shoulder on this P&R 27. Note also that the pin cutout was done before the pin was installed!

Note here the reduction in diameter near the shoulder on a late Model 686. Usually not a drama, but it can be. It depends on the assembler!

A severe case of "over-torqued bulge" on a .40 cal Model 646. No real problem on this revolver, given it's intended use! Have shot this one quite a bit.


The new two piece barrels are a good idea, methinks.