Smith & Wesson CATALOG NUMBERS

[Blue dog]

Just wanted to post some researched information regarding Catalog numbers sometimes found stamped on guns and also on Smith & Wesson boxes.

From my Distributor catalogs you will notice different catalog numbers for the same guns.








3 of the 4 photos are from Sears catalogs that date from 1897-1909. One also dates from 1895 Montgomery Wards catalog.

This is a very small example of what you would find from Distributor catalogs. Numbers that often change yearly.

By the 1920’s as an example, Montgomery Ward had over 500 stores nationwide and Sears had over 300 stores.
Most if not all carried guns for sale and each store had a catalog.
Multiply that by hundreds of Distributors who also had catalogs and catalog numbers and you have yourself an encyclopedia listing of catalog numbers that often changed with each new year and catalog.

Many of these catalogs originated from Chicago, the East Coast, Central, and Southern States. Not too many from the West Coast region until post 1900 but I have several from San Francisco prior to the 1906 quake and they too have catalog numbers.

So in order to identify the catalog number either stamped on your antique or on the box you’d have to have a catalog from the exact year the gun/box was marked and from the relevant major distributor.

 

[glowe]

Do you have any boxes that have those numbers stamped? I always thought it was likely the order number, or number of case as the shipping ledger states, from the factory and all the same for every gun in that shipment?

 

[shown50]

Do you have any boxes that have those numbers stamped? I always thought it was likely the order number, or number of case as the shipping ledger states, from the factory and all the same for every gun in that shipmentView attachment 876150?

Hey Gary, I believe those numbers are the crates or cases that the guns shipped in. The dates and shipping destinations match the cases

 

[Blue dog]

Glowe,
My mind is wide open. If you have references from research that associate the stamped numbers found on boxes with the case they were shipped in please post that.
This is what I have found;
The numbers are most often stamped on the front label. Often blocking the label but also in the lower left, lower right, crossways, etc.
I also noticed almost right away different font size, different color stamps and an enormous variety in numbers “and” letters found.
That’s when I decided to cross reference my distributor catalogs and look for catalog numbers. I found that several matched both the model and caliber.
That’s when my research stopped. I was satisfied that they were indeed catalog numbers and stamped or labeled by Major Distributors as inventory identification.
Admittedly I could not identify all of them but my first post basically explains why.
It’s very possible that Smith & Wesson marked boxes but my problem is how they are found marked.
In my opinion only a Distributor would stamp them like that. Often very unsightly and right over the label.






Also suffix letters and the use of fractions is right out of several of my catalogs.
Ex:6E-12341/2.
The fraction more often associated with the barrel length.

One other tip is the smaller the number found often represented a small distributor. The longer the number the bigger the distributor because their product line was much larger.

 

[glowe]

I have not seen any boxes stamped with numbers that match shipment case numbers or catalog numbers so do not know who stamped them or what those numbers represent. Sears and Wards were retailers, not distributors so not sure why they would have stamped their own stock that they bought? Have you found any numbers that match catalog numbers?? I know that the factory wrote or stamped features on box labels like TARGET stamp or target hammer, target trigger, etc. but not any documentation that they stamped numbers on labels??

 

[Blue dog]

Well I asked AI what it thought of Sears and Wards. This is how it responded;



My file on this subject is stored at my mountain property. I’ll look at it when I get a chance but I do remember finding matching catalog numbers. I also remember posting some of that information in another thread years ago so that’s another reference.

I also remember that one of the Distributors was Folsom in New York. I remember they had 4 digit catalog numbers that matched some of the boxes I have in that file.


In this range I think.

 

[snw19_357]

Good 'ole AI. Let's hope it stays stupid.

Distributors are not retailers and although they might 'distribute' merchandise, retailers are not distributors.

 

[Blue dog]

Let the pigeons loose!

 

[Blue dog]

When we perform research we have to be conscious of a timeline. In other words what happens now more often is not what happened 130 years ago.
As an example;

130 years ago Sears & Roebuck operated out of a warehouse. They had no stores. They were mail order only. For many years.
Catalog numbers were required to place an order. Distributors specialized in mail order. Clearly defined in Antique Distributor catalogs.
This isn’t difficult to understand if we realize that things were different 130 years ago. It’s also not difficult to recognize the need to stamp catalog numbers on boxes when we operate our business from an enormous warehouse.

Catalog numbers simplify locating merchandise.
Instead of looking for a Smith & Wesson Model 1 Target pistol? You simply look in Section W…. Catalog Suffix for firearms. Followed by a number reference for the specific item.
That’s how it worked then.

 

[AirforceVet]

Very cool. Great info