Smith & Wesson Sees Firearms Demand Recovery Stall

[Ameshawki]

Firearm sales have been up, down, and sideways for at least ten years, maybe closer to fifteen. Just when things calm down, like now, a new panic starts. At a certain point buyers experience panic fatigue and quit buying. Combine that with inflation, where everything costs more, there simply isn't enough disposable income to buy both groceries and a new M&P. I suspect the other manufacturers are feeling the pinch as well.

Smith's product line is fine. Oh there's always something we wish Smith would bring back (like three inch K frames) but that's been a constant with Smith (and Colt etal) for decades. The economy is likely headed towards recession. Smith is just the canary in the coal mine.

 

[chief38]

In the transition from traditional forged parts being hand fitted to cast parts being CNC machined, humans also loose their mechanical abilities, true understanding of parts fitment, QC, etc. I was up at the S&W Plant about 12 years ago (private tour) and was actually shocked at how few employees it takes to operate multiple CNC machines. While I did not get the opportunity to speak to any of them, I'd bet they know more about computer programming than they do about gun manufacturing. I understand that Companies want to make a fair profit, cut costs and speed up manufacturing times, however to loose sight of WHY their Company was so successful in the first place is certain death in the long run. This is what has transpired IMHO.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Sounds like a good time to pick up S&W stock.

 

[ladder13]

Maybe if they loose the lawyer hole they could pick up a few sales.

And that big ugly teardrop on the left side of the frame.

 

[LVSteve]

If sales doubled 2 years ago, but went down 47%, they're still ahead.

Gun sales have been crazy for a few years. I see this as a return to normalcy in the market.

The worshipers of the Great God Growth do not accept any reductions in sales or profit. The perceived perpetrators of such failure face an end from a Game of Thrones script.

 

[Farmer17]

I don't think Smith needs to worry about competition from Colt, Ruger, Glock, or Sig as much as they do from Turkey. Turkey is turning out some excellent guns with nice walnut stocks for very reasonable prices and if they start making guns that are prettier and higher quality than Smiths at the same price as an S&W, watch out!

 

[jeffrefrig]

I've bought 4 new S&Ws since last Dec. 3 for the girls and 1 for me. Of course, as I think I posted about it here before, the one I bought for me didn't last more than 30 rounds of .38 spls. and it blew a chunk out of cone thing. I don't know if a .357 magnum would've been worse but I didn't have any with me. From what I hear it takes quite some time to get a gun repaired and returned back to the owner. Being the optimist, I credit the long repair waits on them being such good guns that they aren't used to them being returned for warranty repair!
I thought about sending the M27-9 a cake with a file in it so he can escape and come home! (My guns are all HEs except the Beretta 81. It identifies itself as a Glockette 42.)
I bought one of those 1911 Tisas, as kinda mentioned by Farmer17, and it is really a heck of a reliable and accurate firearm. I'd like to shoot a $1700 1911 to compare. Still, the S&Ws are the nicest-looking revolvers along with Colt's in that price range, IMO.

 

[glenwolde]

In the transition from traditional forged parts being hand fitted to cast parts being CNC machined, humans also loose their mechanical abilities, true understanding of parts fitment, QC, etc. I was up at the S&W Plant about 12 years ago (private tour) and was actually shocked at how few employees it takes to operate multiple CNC machines. While I did not get the opportunity to speak to any of them, I'd bet they know more about computer programming than they do about gun manufacturing. I understand that Companies want to make a fair profit, cut costs and speed up manufacturing times, however to loose sight of WHY their Company was so successful in the first place is certain death in the long run. This is what has transpired IMHO.

I don't think they had a choice. Manufacturing the old way is of course possible, but the cost would be prohibitive. Nobody's going to buy those lovely handmade guns if they start at $2,000. Well sure some would, but there wouldn't be enough volume to keep it going.

This is true of pretty much all manufacturing in the U.S.. Labor costs just got prohibitive. When highly skilled labor was cheap it was possible. But that ship has sailed.

I actually think a lot of it will come back, now that secure supply chains are more important than cheap supply chains. But it's going to cost more and will add to the inflationary pressures.

It's a new world, this is a paradigm shift in global economics. The aftermath of the pandemic is still causing fundamental changes across the globe. Add in geopolitical pressures and things are different. A lot of people no doubt are waiting for things to settle down and get back to "normal". They won't. At least not that normal.

But I digress.....

 

[Telecaster]

Seems like S&W is coming up with all kinds of products and throwing them against the wall to see what sticks. I don't know, they're darned if they do, darned if they don't.

Is the "hole" where all the QC leaked out?

 

[NFrameFred]

I don't think Smith needs to worry about competition from Colt, Ruger, Glock, or Sig as much as they do from Turkey. Turkey is turning out some excellent guns with nice walnut stocks for very reasonable prices and if they start making guns that are prettier and higher quality than Smiths at the same price as an S&W, watch out!

As much as for political reasons of throwing "red meat" to the faithful, I suspect that back room, back channel, discreet lobbying of home based manufacturer's 'concerns' that they 'cannot compete when these products are allowed in' to the ears (and wallets ?) of certain of our representatives, is usually at least part of the cause that we see sudden embargoes of such imported products. Of course, it's not good PR to have that made public knowledge, but I guess I'm the suspicious type . . .

 

[Nightowl]

I'm a revolver guy! I have not bought a new Smith in nearly 20 years since the first year of the 500! And will not as long as it has the lock!!

But, I have three new Smith semi-autos, a Shield, Shield Plus and a FDE M&P 2.0 5 inch. All great guns. I have shot a a few Sig P365s and the Smith has a better trigger!

I fail to see the need for a lock on a 5, 6, 7, or 8 shot revolver when, at the same time, producing thousands of high capacity compact 9mm magazine fed semi-autos without it!!

 

[chief38]

Sometimes a Company has to go through really bad times, loose lots of revenue, hit the bottom of the barrel and be sold. S&W has been sold a number of times and each time a sale happened the Company went down hill after each sale.

Colt went through similar times for many years. I believe under CZ's ownership now things will vastly improve. S&W NEEDS to be owned and operated by GUN PEOPLE to thrive - NOT pencil pushers or conglomerates who only want to turn a profit. I hope that happens sooner than later.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

When Colt was owned by Penn-Texas Corporation who were corporate raiders they changed their name to Colt Industries to capitalize on the Colt name. Colt was simply a division of the larger corporate structure...Holley Carburetors was another division. The parent corporation milked Colt for they could from the military M16 contracts and let the commercial side of the business wither. Once the government contracts went away the Colt Firearms Division's carcass was dumped by the side of the road and picked up by other owners who proved incapable of resuscitating the company for one reason or another...either by poor management decisions or well meaning but incompetent management.

Now CZ owns Colt...a real gun company run by gun people. That bodes well for Colt. From what I understand from some who have inside knowledge...Colt has a first-class management team in place which predates the sale to CZ and are turning the company around with the newest and best equipment and manufacturing methods. While they've had a few bumps in the road with the introductions of new models they've overcome those issues and are producing some of the finest products they ever have.

I don't know what's going on with Smith & Wesson...only what I've read here...and if the criticisms here are accurate then Smith needs some changes made. The criticisms of Colt the last few years were way overblown...the issues were real but not widespread at all unless you believe everything on the internet. Maybe it's the same with Smith.

 

[dmar]

That "hole" is the reason I've not bought a new S&W in years. MIM parts aren't a concern of mine and one of my most shot revolvers has MIM parts, but the "hole" is another matter.......I won't own one with it. I wonder how many sales have been lost because of it?

Don

Same here. In just the past year, I've bought 4 brand new Colt revolvers, and a few used/non-lock S&Ws. If the the new S&Ws didn't have the awful hole in the frame, I would have bought new S&Ws instead. That's just the past year.

I've bought a couple of Smiths with the lock, and they're good guns. But that damn hole just bothers me. S&W is missing the market share boat in a huge way, it's really ridiculous. Simple, have a "Classic" line without the lock, and keep the others with with a lock to still have that in place, where needed.

 

[venomballistics]

The last few guns I acquired, I assembled from parts.
If they offered them open market as some outfits do, I might have incorporated some S&W elements.
But, they don't. So I didn't.
Honestly, I'm not sure what gun is selling right now.
All I can say about the market is that it's in ammo rather than the guns.
Primers and powder are what we need most

 

[PeterJ]

I don't think that the "hole" in Smith guns has anything to do with the downturn in sales. I was in our LGS yesterday and I was the only customer. In 30 years I have never seen that happen.