Smoked Cases

[GypsmJim]

I just made up a batch of .45 Colt using Berry's 230 plated bullets and 8.6 gr. of Unique. My experience is that smoked cases is usually the result of a charge on the low side. This was a handbook formula, and it certainly wasn't real low.

I tried it in 3 different revolvers, so it wasn't the gun. The rounds were actually quite accurate, so other than dirty cases I'm not complaining.

I have used the same load in the past, but it was with 230 lead boolits.

Any suggestions?

 

[rockquarry]

Increase the powder charge in increments of two-tenths of a grain and/or try a magnum primer and shoot a group or two with each new combination. However, If you're getting good accuracy as is, I wouldn't be concerned with smoky brass.

 

[smithra_66]

I just made up a batch of .45 Colt using Berry's 230 plated bullets and 8.6 gr. of Unique. My experience is that smoked cases is usually the result of a charge on the low side. This was a handbook formula, and it certainly wasn't real low.

I tried it in 3 different revolvers, so it wasn't the gun. The rounds were actually quite accurate, so other than dirty cases I'm not complaining.

I have used the same load in the past, but it was with 230 lead boolits.

Any suggestions?

Raise the pressure so the case seals better.

 

[jcelect]

If you are satisfied with the accuracy, tumble your brass! Clean brass is easier on the dies!
jcelect

 

[GypsmJim]

I do tumble and the accuracy was good. I was just concerned because this never happened before.

I shot only half the box and then took them home and put on a heavier crimp just for a trial. That made no difference.

 

[Rule3]

That load should be perfect? Could be poor neck tension, or how did you crimp them (if you did)?


Is the "smoke" only on the half the circumference of the case?

 

[rockquarry]

I do tumble and the accuracy was good. I was just concerned because this never happened before.

I shot only half the box and then took them home and put on a heavier crimp just for a trial. That made no difference.

There are always exceptions, but I've yet to see "increasing crimp to raise pressure" amounts to anything other than increasing crimp and increasing the likelihood of bullet distortion if you go too far. I've found just enough crimp to prevent bullet movement is the ideal crimp for best accuracy and efficient powder burning (provided your powder charge is in the right range). Usually the right crimp is far from a heavy one.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I found out that just .2 grs of powder will usually seal & clean up "Smoky" cases
with a lot of different powders that I load with.

Maybe move to a little faster powder, if you have some?

 

[twodog max]

As you use the cases and reload them the brass work hardens. It could be that the brass is just hard enough it will not expand like new pliable brass.
I have experienced this is all kinds of cases. One of the worst smoky brass offenders I ever had was in a 257 Weatherby magnum. Even at top end loads the brass was smoky. I have no idea what the pressure was but most definitely was on up there like all Weatherby loads on the top end.

 

[GypsmJim]

They had a roll crimp using the bullet seating die.

The smoke was on the entire case all the way around.

This was new Starline brass that had been "loaded" once, and this was the first "re"-load.

 

[Nevada Ed]

They had a roll crimp using the bullet seating die.

The smoke was on the entire case all the way around.

This was new Starline brass that had been "loaded" once, and this was the first "re"-load.

1. case not sealing or

2. Over size chamber

would be my guess, with the NEW cases.

 

[Rule3]

Can you post a picture of the brass?


I really would not be concerned
How much of a roll crimp?? Plated bullets shouldn't' be crimped to much
Unique is related to Blue Dot. "flaming dirt"


I use it for 45 Colt and heavier lead bullets

 

[GypsmJim]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I thought of most of them before. I've been loading .45 Colt since 1976.

I would have to say it was the "right" crimp. The bullets stayed in place and recovered bullets show no crimp deformity.

Since it happened with 3 different guns, I would say it was not the chamber.

I tumbled and resized them already so no pics available.

Thanks again.

 

[.38SuperMan]

Other than making your fingers dirty a little soot isn’t a problem. Actually carbon is a good lubricant for your dies. After graphite is just carbon.

I load all of my range ammo on the light side due to arthritis and all of my brass gets smoky. I wipe it off sometimes as I’m loading but often I don’t worry about it.

 

[zeke]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I thought of most of them before. I've been loading .45 Colt since 1976.

I would have to say it was the "right" crimp. The bullets stayed in place and recovered bullets show no crimp deformity.

Since it happened with 3 different guns, I would say it was not the chamber.

I tumbled and resized them already so no pics available.

Thanks again.

Can i ask which 3 guns? Still have older Rugers BH's that have oversize chambers, and it may be a lot of pistols in 45 LC were cut that way. Outside of using high pressure loads, the only way i found to stop the overly blackened brass was to neck size them leaving the lower part of case unsized.

 

[BrovoEchoSierra]

Might try to anneal your brass, just a little bit.
My Dad was a big fan of the 45 Colt, but always grumbled about smoked cases.
Dads load was 8 grs of Unique and a 200 grain cast bullet. Since the 45 was in a black hawk, Dad thought it had to be loaded light.
He had a Super Black hawk in 44 mag, and the cases stayed pretty clean.
I dont know what his load was, and the 44 is long gone, but I know he loaded it quite a bit hotter, than he did the 45.
You might also try a quicker powder, like bullseye... That might clean it up a little.

 

[twodog max]

IMO smoky brass just happens and I never worried about it. tumbling either wet or dry takes care of it. As long as smoke does not blow back out of the cylinder seems OK to me.
Light loaded cast bullet rifle rounds like the 45/70 with lots of gooey bullet lube really gum up the cases. Sort of a worst scenario. I have that a lot but other than being messy no big deal.

 

[GypsmJim]

I'm really not worried about it. It was just something that I had not expereicned before to this high degree and I wondered what changed.

The guns were an Old Model Blackhawk, a new Model Vaquero and a 25-5.

The funny part was that my 25-5 HAS wide throats and I usually load 255's at 0.454. I wasn't thinking that day and used the 0.452 Berrys and I actually amazed myself how well I hit the target.....LOL.

 

[Dvus]

Unique is a great all around powder and I used it almost exclusively for several years. Eventually I got tired of the blackened brass in every caliber (longer cases especially, like .45 Colt, .44 and .357 mag.) I used it in and switched to 231. Brass and guns are MUCH cleaner now. I have a .40 load with Xtreme 180 gr. plated bullets that I use for USPSA that burns so clean that the only reason I clean the gun at all is to get the dirt out that finds its way into the mags. The brass comes out of the gun nearly spotless.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Also add to the mix, it us Unique after all.