So, its a 44-40 Frontier....Value Opinions Please

[Rikkn]

A customer offered up an old one today. I did not copy all the markings, but he called it a
44 Russian, It in in very nice shape for its age, and is in a kind of strange Folsom Audley Official holster on a mini belt holder sort of thing. The gun is s/n 4598, with a star after it. Any info ? Opinions ? Value ideas ? Thanks again guys.

 

[Rikkn]

A customer offered up an old one today. I did not copy all the markings, but he called it a
44 Russian, It in in very nice shape for its age, and is in a kind of strange Folsom Audley Official holster on a mini belt holder sort of thing. The gun is s/n 4598, with a star after it. Any info ? Opinions ? Value ideas ? Thanks again guys.

 

[Muley Gil]

Topbreak? Double action? Single action?

We need a bit more information to go on.

 

[Rikkn]

More info !! It is a topbreak, marked Smith & Wesson, Springfield Mass USA on top of barrel.
S/N is 4598 on cylinder, and with a star after it on butt end. Brass is marked .44 S&WR.Looks like about a 6" barrel. The holster is very cool, closed bottom, leg-strap, and is on a swivel type fitting attached to a 9 x 2 " belt loop that has double rows for bullets and 2 metal loops on top. I will try and post a picture in the morning. Any info would be greatly appreciated as I just may buy it tomorrow morning and still don't know which model it is........

 

[Rikkn]

Another update, just matched it to a picture in 10th edition of History of S&W, it appears to be a
44 Double Action in S&W .44 Russian Caliber.

 

[The Maxo]

One possible point of confusion here. S&W made these top break revolvers in both 44 Russian and 44 S&W which are two different cartridges.

The 44 S&W (Otherwise known as the 44 American) was the inspiration for the 44 Russian but the two are not interchangable.

The 44 Russian was stretched to become the 44 Special which was stretched to become the 44 Magnum which was stretched to be come the 445 SuperMag.

 

[opoefc]

The gun is a .44 Double Action, 1st model, ( New Model Navy No. 3) made about 1882-3. The holster is much later, circa 1950-60s of the Trooper style and the cartridge loops on the belt attachment part of the swivel rig maybe for .38 cal and not .44 Russian caliber. Several makers made this style of holster, including S&W. If it's an S&W holster, the logo will be on the back side.

 

[dan_is_dea_mann]

If you are interested rikkn, I am still looking to buy a .44 russian in DA. Contact me if you are willing to sell.

 

[Rikkn]

Adding pictures. I got this from an old-timer, belonged to his grandfather who was a doctor in the early west, he wore this for protection when riding out on house calls. The holster rig is awesome, my favorite part of the deal. The 36 Navy and a bunch of accessories came with it. Don't know anything about it yet. ]<img [URL=<a href="http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/RIKKN/?action=view&current=IMG_0335.jpg" target="_blank">[img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/RIKKN/IMG_0335.jpg[/img]]<img [URL=<a href="http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/RIKKN/?action=view&current=IMG_0331.jpg" target="_blank"><img [URL=<a href="http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/RIKKN/?action=view&current=IMG_0337.jpg" target="_blank">[img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/RIKKN/IMG_0337.jpg[/img]]<a href="http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/RIKKN/?action=view&current=IMG_0337.jpg" target="_blank"><img

 

[moosedog]

Man is that cool! Is the 36 Navy an original or reproduction?
I would get a letter on that one.

 

[dinguss]

That S&W DA with that long Cylinder looks like a 44 40 one.
Are the chambers deeper than the Russian cases will go into the cylinder?
Most of the DA S&W 44 Russians ive seen with the longer Cylinders had Higer ser # like in the 45000 and up.
there were 1 inch and 7/16th long cylinder then longer 1 inch and 9 /16th cylinders.

Anyway sweet unit! love that holster rig for it.

 

[Camster]

'51 Navy looks like a brass frame,which would make it a repro.

 

[Rikkn]

Camster is correct, it is a repro, seems like a decent one though.
Dingus, the cylinder is 1 9/16th long. The ammo with it is marked 44 S&WR, and he has shot it several times over the years. S/N on the frame and cylinder is the same, it is 4598. To the previous owners knowledge, the holster has always been with the gun. It has the single line markings on the barrel saying " Smith & Wesson, Springfield Mass USA ".
Help me out here guys, what have I gotten myself into ?? How can I tell the correct caliber ? Any ideas on value ?

 

[dinguss]

I know 44 Russian will fit it but i think its 44 40
Do you have a 44 40 case kicking around to try?
The 44 40 case is longer and has a slight taper towards the front. so if ya measure the chamber depth and its longer than the 44 Russian case by 1/4 inch or so my guess is its a 44 40
Isnt there anyone else here who can help him out???
I know this from Bidding on DA S&Ws at Gun broker as in Canada we CANT have the 44 40 ones only the 44 Russian or 44 S&W CTG CHAMBERED pre 1898 Guns as Antique.

If its a 44 40 like i think i see em go from $800 up to $2000 theres a couple 44 40s now on GB at about $1800
Check your chamber depths.. It has chamber Throats dont it?
or is it a strait bored thru cylinder?

 

[Rikkn]

The chamber is a good 1/4 inch longer than the 44 Russian cartridge. The chambers seem to have a step or taper about a 1/4 inch back from the front.

 

[dinguss]

OK!! thats it then i thought so! its a 44 40.

thats a more powerfull rd than the 44 russian.


Id shoot it with the proper ammo it will shoot alot better with 44 40 cases as the bullet wont have to jump so far to hit the rifleing...
Very nice gun!
tho the Hammer has had something done to it perhaps the fireing pin replaced.
So these things effect collector value.
So i cant guess a value with them alterations.

hows it fit in that holster with that big trigger gard?

 

[Rikkn]

Hey Dingus, great info !! Thanks. It fits the holster like it was made for it. Looking on the web I see pics and description of others that have 2 lines of info on the barrel, including patent dates, mine has only one line, no dates, is this significant ?Would the 44-40 caliber make it a Frontier model ?

 

[dinguss]

Yes i think thats what they usally call them 44 40s Frontier models.

I bought this DA S&W in the picture below its got the longer cylinder BUT its chambered for the 44 S&W CTG. I love it its a 4 inch barreled model and has a bigger frame catch than the Shorter cylinder S&W DA 44 Russians

Its in the 51000 Ser #ed its a very nice gun i got it from Switzerland of all places LOL

Has writen on barrel *44 S&W CTG *

Click on pic to enlarge.

 

[deadin]

1 9/16ths cylinder and serial number under 15,341 equals 44/40. (aka .44 DA Frontier.) (Unless it's .38 caliber

)

 

[Rikkn]

OK, seems to be a 44-40 Frontier model. Are they very collectable ? Any opinions on desirability, value ???