So what's the deal with 10mm?

[fredj338]

No it isn't. Not by a long shot.

This is where the 10mm fanatics get caught up. Loaded to the gills, 5"bbl, 200gr bullet @ 1200fps is about it. Sure, some guys run hotter, but their guns will get hammered sooner than later. It is a bit better than a 45acp loaded to +P; 230gr bullet @ 1050fps, but not by much. A 4" 41mag easily pushes a 210gr @ 1200fps in a 4" gun, with room to add on safely & with exc accuarcy. Anyone shooting a magnum on a reg basis will find any 10mm quite tame.
The 10mm is a good round but suffers from not enough guns for it & limited factory ammo. It's a cult or niche round. If you buy one, plan on handloading for it. I've been shooting one since the 10mm first came out. 1st gen Delta, 1006 & now a G20sf, shot one of the first Brens quite a bit. I like the round but it's not, never will be a magnum hunting round, but certainly within range/accuracy limits, will get the job done on deer & hogs with proper bullets & loads.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

Limited ammo is another story. I doubt I have shot more than one box of factory ammo in 20/30 years. I reload all my own and have full faith in it. Powder is 800X, but that is all I will post for public view.

 

[colt_saa]

In its full-house loadings, the 10mm is the equivalent of the .41 Magnum.

Actually the answer to this is TRUE if we are talking about the 10MM Magnum cartridge.

If we are referring to the 10MM Auto cartridge, then the statement is FALSE.

This confusion happens often when folks just say 10MM. John Taffin wrote the original article that most folks have in the backs of their mind when they make that statement. The problem is that article was written decades ago and they forget that the word MAGNUM came after the 10MM

The 10MM Magnum AMT/IAI Automag IV will move a 200 grain JHP out at well over 1600 FPS with a nice charge of H110

The Smith and Wesson 310/610 revolvers are great candidates for the 10MM Magnum conversion. I have opened all of my revolvers up so I can shoot the 10MM Magnum as well as the 10MM Auto and 40S&W

 

[fredj338]

200gr XTP @ 1200fps is a low end magnum like load. Then you are maxed out in a 5" gun. Yes you can run it w/ a 6" bbl, & get more but then you can do that with any magnum too. I like the 10mm, but it will never replace even my 4" magnums.

 

[rwsmith]

.40 is a tamed 10mm

Just because the 'average' LEO found the 10mm to be too much doesn't mean it's not good for somebody who want's a powerful gun. Not being accepted by LE agencies gives a gun a bad rap it doesn't deserve.

 

[Biggfoot44]

If you ever said to yourself "Dang , I wish I could shoot .41Mag Silvertips in my 1911" n then the Delta is your Huckleberry.

For backgroound :

When we speak of the 10mm , we are actually speaking of three different things.

The wimpy factory loads are equiv to full power .40S&W .

The "normal" full power loads are equiv to 75-80% loads in .41 . And a worthwhile power level , combining power with control ( for people experienced in magnum class handguns ).

And "Really Full" power loads are indeed in .41Mag territory. My shooting/ handloading partner #1 is an experienced handloader , and a True Believer in .41Mag , who also happens to load for his Delta Elete. His loads for 10mm involving 220gr cast bullets and 2400 give well over 1300fps . Yeah , his prefered LBT loads in 4.625 BlackHawk , but his 10mm loads are definately into the range of standard .41 factory loads.

The downside is ammo availability and price. . Hot loads from speciality mfgs are available for similar prices to their other ammo. But generic factory ammo is scarce , and expensive when found. So think of 10mm as a handloader's ctg.

I have a G29 , and conversion bbl for .40S&W is on my wish list , to make use of common generic .40 plinking ammo.

 

[colt_saa]

And "Really Full" power loads are indeed in .41Mag territory. My shooting/ handloading partner #1 is an experienced handloader , and a True Believer in .41Mag , who also happens to load for his Delta Elete. His loads for 10mm involving 220gr cast bullets and 2400 give well over 1300fps . Yeah , his prefered LBT loads in 4.625 BlackHawk , but his 10mm loads are definately into the range of standard .41 factory loads.

Obviously I do not know your friend. I also expect that you trust him to be truthful with you. But there is just no way that what he has told you can possibly be correct.

The amount of 2400 necessary to propel a 220 grain 10MM projectile from a 5" barrel with a muzzle velocity "well over 1300FPS" would never fit into a 10MM Auto case.

Even if it were possible to pack all that 2400 into the 10MM Auto case, the pressure would be more than 50% over the SAAMI standard pressure for the 10MM Auto cartridge.

Perhaps you misunderstood which cartridge he was referring to, or he misunderstood your question.

 

[fredj338]

Just because the 'average' LEO found the 10mm to be too much doesn't mean it's not good for somebody who want's a powerful gun. Not being accepted by LE agencies gives a gun a bad rap it doesn't deserve.

The 41mag was also designed as a LE round for a 4" gun, basically giving 38-40 performance in a modern gun & cartridge.

AS to loading a 220gr LFP to 1300fps, IMO, not safely in most 5" guns. Maybe it could be done, one special fast gun, wouldn't call someone a liar, but I would have to see the surviving case & chrono readings. My Delta & 100s start showing excessive pressures around the 1200fps mark. Not to mention I just don't get the accuracy I get out of a good rev. I can hold 4" @ 50yds with a 4" magnum, not so with any 10mm I have tried.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

Down to just one 38/40 now, but it is enough . A nice truck gun, it will do the intended job. Have a stash of 10MM MAG brass I acquired for a conversion, but it never happened. Guess I should put the brass up for sale one day.

 

[Harkrader]

I've seen two carried by Wisconsin LEOs. One was a S&W, I don't remember the model, the other a Glock 20.
I have three Colts, two DEs and one Double Eagle. I like them all.
I fired them side-by-side with a Glock 20 when Fletcher Arms in Waukesha had a "Glock Day." The lighter Glock kicked more than I like, compared to the Colts.

The only thing I have killed so far is a feral dog which, to be fair, could have been done with a .22 Magnum.

As others have said, most commercial loads seem to be "40S&W-Long." I handload, 170-gr bullets with 13 grains of Number 9 to about 1300fps. 180-gr bullets with 12.2 grains to about 1250. Seems to do anything I want them to do. One of our sons lives in Arkansas and the DE is one gun I plan to take hog hunting when I visit him this winter.

 

[Dan Christopher]

No law enforcement agencies that ever used the 10mm were ever issued full powered loadings. So the notion that the 10mm was "too much" is/was bogus. They never used, nor were they ever going to use the hot stuff to begin with.

The problem with 10mm for LE use has always been the size of the guns.

Remember, the FBI settled on a 180gr@1000fps for what they needed. S&W and Winchester got together and came up with a shorter round which performed at the needed specs. The shorter round allowed for pistols with smaller, more user friendly sized grips...and the 40 S&W was born.

 

[Dan Christopher]

No. 10mm is a solid 357 Magnum in terms of power. 41 Magnum is an entirely different animal. The only way a 10mm compares to a 41 Magnum is if:

1) The 10mm shooter is using an extended after market barrel.
2) The 10mm shooter is using loads which are redline, borderline for safety.
3) The 10mm shooter is comparing their whiz bang top end load to a fairly anemic 41 mag load.

All that said, I love the 10mm. I ought to...I own three of them.

Still though, the 10mm is NOT a 41 Magnum!

 

[fredj338]

No. 10mm is a solid 357 Magnum in terms of power. 41 Magnum is an entirely different animal. The only way a 10mm compares to a 41 Magnum is if:

1) The 10mm shooter is using an extended after market barrel.
2) The 10mm shooter is using loads which are redline, borderline for safety.
3) The 10mm shooter is comparing their whiz bang top end load to a fairly anemic 41 mag load.

All that said, I love the 10mm. I ought to...I own three of them.

Still though, the 10mm is NOT a 41 Magnum!

I'm in the exact same boat. I own 3, like the round but if I want more power & accuracy from a stock gun, even my 4" 41mag is a better bet. I did recently jump into the Glock band wagon with a G20sf. Running a 200grLFP @ 1200fps is a serious woods load for a light wt backpack gun.

 

[ACP230]

A friend has a S&W revolver in 10mm. I think it's the 610.
I shot it and liked it. I think I shot his S&W pistol in 10mm also.

Since I have .45s and .41 Magnums and reload for them, I never
convinced myself that I needed a 10mm. I did like the looks of the Colt Delta Elite though.

 

[S&W1006]

A friend has a S&W revolver in 10mm. I think it's the 610.
I shot it and liked it. I think I shot his S&W pistol in 10mm also.

Since I have .45s and .41 Magnums and reload for them, I never
convinced myself that I needed a 10mm. I did like the looks of the Colt Delta Elite though.

ACP230 need has nothing to do with it I don't "need" 4 10mm's but I sure do like owning them. [emoji2]

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

Another 10MM - 38/40 - a Ruger 'BUCKEYE' special -- w/ holster-- stocked in Ivory-- her sister, a 32/20 - 32MAG has a black holster-- She does just fine with my handholds.

 

[S&W1006]

Another 10MM - 38/40 - a Ruger 'BUCKEYE' special -- w/ holster-- stocked in Ivory-- her sister, a 32/20 - 32MAG has a black holster-- She does just fine with my handholds.

I would love to find a Buckeye 10mm. They are harder to find than a 610. Hopefully sometime I will luck up when I have the money to buy.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

I would love to find a Buckeye 10mm. They are harder to find than a 610. Hopefully sometime I will luck up when I have the money to buy.

I looked for years for this pair then just walked into a shop in the valley one day after a disappointing show down the road and there they were. One just never knows about such things.

 

[Murdock]

Thanks for all of the replies. In summary, I glean the following:

1. 10mm Auto (which is not the same thing as 10mm Magnum) is more powerful than either .38 Super or .45 ACP, but falls just a bit short of true .41 Magnum power. The most potent 10mm loads just barely approach the low end of what .41 Magnum will do.

2. Like the .38 Super the 10mm is loud, but has much more recoil than the Super.

3. Again, Like the .38 Super, the 10mm will have to be hand loaded for best results.

4. Brass is more difficult to obtain than most common auto pistol rounds.

5. The 10mm is a better woods gun than SD gun due primarily to recoil, and secondarily due to possible over penetration.

6. The 10mm is cool, and even those that admit that its not really in the true .41 Magnum class still think it's cool and that I should have one.

Hope that covers it. Thanks again for the input.

 

[Houser52]

I took this doe at 45 steps using my 4" Dan Wesson 10mm Bobtail using 180 grain Zero HP bullet @1200 fps.
She was facing toward me and the bullet entered just to the right of her breast bone. I recovered her about 50 yards from where she was shot.
The bullet fragmented with some jacket fragments exiting on both sides. Never found the lead core.