Solar power?

Gunslinger808

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I come to you folks as I know nothing about Solar power.
Any of you familiar with it?
Using it?
To me on the surface it seems to be a great idea, no electric bill, renewable, helps me be off the grid, and just smart from a survival standpoint.
Since I live in an area that averages 340 (at least) days of sunshine a year it seems just about perfect.
If any of you have first hand knowledge you'd care to share I'd appreciate it.
The good, the bad, and the ugly.
 
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The sun is free so far till the feds can figure a way to tax it. Remember you have batteries to keep up and replace, electronics will eventually go down, but till then it will be cheap after installation. I don't have it but have researched it. You also need to keep the collectors clean and some add tracking, for full performance.
 
If you want to go "off the grid" you need to figure out how much electricity you are drawing with your current needs. That will determine how large of a system you will need. If its for shtf you could design it for minimal use like charging batteries and maybe running some appliances and lighting. Also, if at any point you are generating more energy than you are using you could potentially "sell" it back to the utility provider if they have a provision for it.
 
Photovoltaics are getting cheaper all the time. The idea of being off the grid is problematic though. The best way to make it work is to use grid metering. This is where your cells make power during the day and puts that power into the grid (and you get credit for it) then you can use the power when you need it (which is usually when the sun is set). Tracking was a viable option when solar cells were expensive but with the current price of cells, it's not worth the added expense and complexity (moving parts). It's cheaper to add more cells that may be less efficient at certain angles than try to align the array to optimum angles. Another off grid problem is the storage problem. Batteries are the normal method but consistent charging and battery wearout are issues (along with the added expense of replacement every few years). There are a lot of things to consider. Best thing to do is talk to a Renewable Energy Designer and let them explain the options. (In case you're wondering, this is a field in which I have a degree :D)
 
For the foreseeable future, any domestic installation that could fit your description of "no electric bill" would require a cost per kilowatthour far in excess of the current cost for utility-genereated and -delivered electricity. And when I say "far" I mean "gross excess".

Let's also talk energy management: unless you are willing to lay out $10's of thousands of dollars in upfront costs (that's the plural of 10, not 10) for the generation panels, storage system, inverters, etc. you will have to do two things:

(1) Greatly reduce the amount of electrical energy you consume.
(2) Greatly reduce the electrical power you consume.

Just so we're clear on what this means:

(1) means that you will drastically cut the use of electrical consumers in your home. You will cook with a combustible fuel; you will not leave lights on, even at night; you will unplug your electrical clocks, your DVR that consumes up to 50W 24 hours per day, your cable modem and your router except when you want to use them, your battery chargers, etc. Nothing gets left plugged in unless its being used, and you will focus on using them as little as possible.

(2) means that when you use electricity, you will not draw it out very quickly. You can loosely categorize your biggest power draws as follows:

(a) Electrical stove/oven, electric water heater, air conditioner, electric clothes dryer. These can draw multiple kilowatts, especially the stove/oven, which can pull 10 kw at full power.

(b) Clothes iron, microwave, toaster, toaster oven, coffee maker, hair dryer, some vaccuum cleaners, etc. These are all one kilowatt-class devices.

(c) Everything else. Lights, ceiling fans, televisions, garage door openers, etc.

Both the total energy required and the power crank up the costs. Total energy drives up the cost of the panels and the storage system; total power cranks up the cost of the storage system and the power electronics that convert your stored electricity into something your house can actually use.

It is possible to live off-the-grid with just solar as your generating capacity. It also requires a very, very high up-front investiture which goes up considerably depending upon how reluctant you are to really stop consuming electricity. Long-term maintenance is also a considerable cost, especially for the storage system, and measurements indicate that nearly all photovoltaic systems continually lose some of their generating capacity. In other words, if you installed a 5 kW system (which would be a large system), if might only be 4 kW in 10 years, meaning that you'll need additional panels.

Right now, there's nothing that compares with burning stuff when you want to generate electricity.
 
It has its place.
Electric fence charger with deep cycle battery and small solar panel. I traded my barber four boxes of aluminum case Blazer .45 acp for the panel.
 

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Several forms of solar power have experience with most of them.

solar PV for electricity. Depending on your area net metering may be a better deal, use the grid as your battery, however also be aware that most places have a minimum charge to connect to grid so you electric bill will never go to $0 typical payback period depending on electric costs runs 20-25 years

Solar hot water excellent use, ideal if you also have a hot tub or pool to dump excess heat in during the summer. Can also be used to provide space heating with in-floor radiant systems Payback period if you are on propane for hot water and space heating is usually 4-5 years

Solar hot air, fail safe for space heating but still results in blowing dust payback period similar to solar hot water

For tons of information check out Home Power magazine

We're trying to put in solar everything as fast as we can.
 
A couple of different approaches:

full grid-tie - with this method, you are pumping power back into the grid, turning your meter back during daylight and spinning forward during night. It is possible to offset your usage but your initial investment will be substantial to install the system. Downside is that when the power goes out, so does yours.

grid-tie inverters - these are basically a solar panel attached to an inverter that you plug into a 120v AC outlet to pump power back into the grid. Will offset some usage. Will not work at night, does not store any power, will stop working during a power outage.

solar with battery storage and inverter - this way you store up during the day to use during the night. Gonna need LOTS of batteries if you intend to run a full sized house, somewhere to have this battery bank sitting and a powerful charger if your panels are not charging (i.e. bad weather, winter, etc.). This could be an off-grid system or integrated into a house with grid power via transfer switches.

I have an APC UTS10BI installed at my house which has 10 circuits which can be designated for UPS or generator backup. It "centralized" my UPS for my computer, home theater and emergency lighting. If the power goes out, Internet, computers and home theater all chug along under UPS power; so I can fire up the 240v generator, plug into the sub-panel and my well pump works just fine along with the other designated circuits. Great for those power outages. Also good for integration with solar applications. It WILL have you re-assessing your energy usage, how your circuits are laid out (i.e. dedicated outlets for high draw microwave, coffee pot, vacuum, etc.) and how much you may want to spend in order to save.
 
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I have been told by people who should know at a leading solar equipment manufacturing firm that the technology is moving so fast and breakthroughs are coming so rapidly that right now any equipment is outdated before it can be produced and it is best to wait.
 
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I really want to thank all of you for the great information.
Looks like I've got quite a bit of homework to do.
And yes I'll probably go ahead and get it done, at the least it will cut my electric bill considerably.
Not to mention all the incentive programs that seem to be out there now.
I'll keep you posted as to the outcome, good or bad I guess I'm going to be somewhat of a Beta tester.
Maybe Al Gore will fly me to his house for brew and BBQ!
 
Ah, the green dream.

Solar power is still not cost effective. Getting off the grid will cost the average home owner $50-$100K to start and then you have the maintenance, battery replacement, special circuits, etc. You only also get to sell power back to the power company on off peak hours at the price it COSTS them to make it. ( Not what they sell it for.) It may make you feel good but simple math dictates you'll likely never break even. Wind can be better but often not by much. The reason you see this stuff going up is because the feds subsidize the companies who develop it and the customers who buy it. Once the handouts dry up ( as they regularly do) so does any cost benefit.
 
Ah, the green dream.
Solar power is still not cost effective. Getting off the grid will cost the average home owner $50-$100K to start

I've got a neighbor with a roof covered in photovoltaic panels. Most months in winter he sells power to the utility, now he's still a couple hundred lower than us. He does have a 2nd mortgage for $40K that he pays $400/mo though. Our bill is $200/mo winter, $400/mo summer for a 4/3 house. I did ask about the 400 or so holes that are drilled into the roof to anchor the panels (we do get some wind sometimes, not just hurricanes), regarding leaks and re-roof, but he just seemed offended and didn't answer. I'm voting no. Joe
 
IF I were to build a new house - I would wire for TWO different power systems.

Standard 120/240 VAC 60 cycle from the power company.

12/24 VDC from solar system battery pack.

Everything in my house - with exception of stove, refrigerator, and washing maching - has 12 VDC or 24 VDC equivalents available.

Wind power is not practical for me unless I am given a free politician to power it.

Forgot the need for solar water heater.

Also need solar clothes dryer - 4 Line model like Granma had.

Bekeart
 
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I really want to thank all of you for the great information.
Looks like I've got quite a bit of homework to do.
And yes I'll probably go ahead and get it done, at the least it will cut my electric bill considerably.
Not to mention all the incentive programs that seem to be out there now.
I'll keep you posted as to the outcome, good or bad I guess I'm going to be somewhat of a Beta tester.
Maybe Al Gore will fly me to his house for brew and BBQ!
You might look into solar domestic hot water. No electrical connections, no batteries, no selling power back to the grid. It was relatively cheap some time ago and could still be depending upon State and Federal tax credits. In my home the hot water usage is a huge part of the bill.

If you do not go domestic solar hot water, I still suggest you buy a timer for your Hot water tank (electric). When I did I saved over $10/month. Payback was under six months.
 
The only thing I really want the solar for is to power our AC unit and refrigerator.
Our water heater, dryer, and oven/range run on gas, we don't watch much TV, and other than Two lights and my computer on most of the time that's it for our power consumption.
 
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