Some 9mm reloading questions.

[Kiwi cop]

Last year I made the decision to move from .45 ACP to 9mm for a few IPSC competitions. I obtained the last 1000 124 gn plated round nosed 9mm projectiles my supplier had in stock, and placed an indent order for 5000 mixed .45 and 9mm projectiles for delivery in the New Year.

Come late January with the shipment delayed and a competition last weekend I borrowed 1000 plated truncated cone (flat point) bullets from a another club member to be replaced when the shipment finally arrived (3 days before the comp).

During the first day the match my Kimber 9mm 1911 A1 was plagued with cartridge misfeeds. It was always the first and second round in the full magazine that caught on the feed ramp costing me time. The same profile in .45 ACP has always fed reliably. For the second day I dug out some practice (not barrel dropped) 124 gn PRN reloads I had in my cupboard and there was no further feeding problems.

First question: Has anyone else had this problem with flat point 9mm bullets?

Next, my rounds were loaded with a just under max load (5.5 gns) of some repackaged Winchester Action Pistol powder bought from a local ammunition manufacturer who use it in their factory loads. Everything I have read says this is an accurate powder across all loadings in 9mm, but I have to admit that I have not been overly impressed with the accuracy. Even the factory 9mm loads with this powder have never approached the groups I have achieved with my preferred loads in another 9mm pistol (103 gn bullet @ 1300 fps). Groups are not as tight as in other calibers (45 ACP/.38 Special) at the same ranges either.

I had the same problem with the same powder in 45 ACP using both 230 gn LRN and 200 gn PTC bullets and switched to Tightgroup powder for the 200 grn's which grouped much tighter out to 45 meters.

I am considering changing to Tightgroup for 9mm but the max load on Hodgdon's website is 4.1 gn for 1057 fps. I am looking for around 1180 fps to make a 134-136 power factor. I also seat my bullets out slightly to function better in some .38 Super mags I have without a spacer fitted in the rear, which drops velocity a bit (I found this out when first loading for my 1911 9mm as the first couple of charges I tried more than made PF in standard length rounds (around 128-129 PF) but failed to make it in those where the projectiles were seated out (122 PF).

Second question: Has anyone else found accuracy issues with WAP?

And finally: Any experiences with Tightgroup in 9mm?

 

[M29since14]

My experience with magazines in 9mm for the 1911 is that they are cantankerous and a pain in the neck! The problem you mention is typical, IMO. Have you tried different brands of magazines? If not, I would do that before changing anything else.

Powders - can’t help you, sorry. I use only HS6 or WSF in 9mm. Once in a great while I will use 231 if loading for a SIG.

 

[Joe4d]

all I use is tight group under 124 gr FMJ and 147 coated. Hodgdon lists max of 4.4gr with a 125 gr FMJ, @ 1136fps, also their data is using a 4" barrel and short OAL. I am assuming ur gun is 5 inch. I loaded at 130 pf, as rules here were minimum 125. TG is pretty consistent. Should have no problem getting velocity you want.
Another issue though is those bullets. I have found most copper plated bullets to be pretty junky and shoot poorly. Mike them Diameter is often all over the place as most MFG dont resize after plating. Berry's did and thise shot fairly well.
But then moly and poly coated came out and those shoot great.

 

[Joe4d]

Only time I have used those flat nose they were 147's and keyholed at 130 pf in my browning. so quit using them and went to round nose for 9mm. Dont recall feed problems though. Only used FMJ or coated round nose in my 9mm 1911

 

[Nevada Ed]

WAP for 9mm is a thing of the past with PP, Comp and the newer stuff.
TG is great for small amounts but like Bullseye and w231, a full
load is needed in short barrels to get to 1056fps, pf128, with a plated 124gr RN bullet.
However this 124gr in a 5" barrel will get 1153fps with a pf of 143
with Bullseye and w231 powders.

The FN is like a HP and these need to be tested for the best OAL
along with a PF from 128 up to 138.
My 5" likes a 124gr in the 131PF areas for accuracy and no feeding problems.

I would like a 124gr to work for me but right now my best accuracy
out of my 5" is a 115gr PRN at 1120fps with a pf128.......
that I need to try to move up to 1150fps.

Good luck.

 

[Wise_A]

If you want accuracy, the typical go-to's for 9mm have been the 147-grain lead semiwad (you can use coated if you need reduced smoke for your competitive covering fire games ), a 124-grain lead semiwad, or a 124-grain JHP.

For action pistol, I'd suggest a plain roundnose. They're still plenty fine, but probably a little easier to feed than a semiwad. So a coated 124-gr LRN, maybe 147 depending on what feels better at PF.

Plated produces good-enough results for casual shooting, but they're very sensitive to OAL and charge weight. If you're not getting decent accuracy, try shortening the length some.

I've used Titegroup for my Gold Dot-alike practice ammo. It's a good choice for making power factor, accuracy wasn't any worse than normal for plated. My charge was 4.1-4.2 or so.

 

[DWalt]

My favorite propellant for 124 grain 9mm RN bullets has always been Green Dot. Unique works well also.

 

[rwsmith]

Round nose with a long taper.....

Round noses with a long taper are the most reliable feeding in general. I've had a bunch of problems with 9mm that I've had to square up, but I seem to be able to find new bugs which each bullet that I use. Each has its quirks. Hanging up on the feed ramp hasn't been one I've had to deal with. Changing COAL seems to fix about any bullet with any gun. Some guns are just picky.

I've used Round Nose, "Smallball" and SWCs in my semi autos. RN is very forgiving. Small ball has to be loaded very short (1.06" max). I havn't used truncated cones, but I suppose that they are similar to SWCs in that they are loaded to the shoulder, with enough mouth flare to prevent shaving and 'de-tapered' lightly, just enough to remove the flare in the bullet.

Titegroup is a great target powder, and can be loaded to fairly high velocities, but I don't think good enough to make high power factors.

Acc #7, Unique and Longshot are the powders that have given me the highest velocities if you are tryiing make a power factor. Of these Acc #7 is my favorite.

 

[Nevada Ed]

About those 147gr bullets........
Yes they can be accurate from 850fps up to 1140, in my pistols, but

There is a world of difference from the short Speer TMJ at .641"
vs the Berry 147gr RN that has a length of a whopping, .672".

The Speer will swallow a lot of flake powders like Unique for max. loads.
The Berry cuts Unique down to 85% of the Speer's loading but
it does make good use of the ball type powders.
My max. with Bullseye was 995 with a OAL of 1.13", with a 5" barrel.

 

[WR Moore]

The catching on the feed ramp with the first couple of rounds may be related to your overall length and/or seating depth*. Try it with the round seated to normal OAL for 9 mm and see what happens. Epoxying a shim in the back of the .38 Super mag may take care of the spacer issue.

One of the other issues with long seated TC flat points can be the rifling leade. The bullet may encounter the rifling before the round is completely chambered.

I believe it's Chip McCormack/McCormich that has 1911 9 mm mags with a lip at the front of the mag to help on the feed cycle.

I personally use Unique in 9 mm and have no issues with either accuracy or PF.

*Given the fully loaded mag, the magazine spring tension may not be releasing the round at the right time. I've also found plated bullets to be more prone to setback during the feed cycle than lead bullets or jacketed.

 

[Kiwi cop]

Okay so I have now fired off around 150 124 gn PRN bullets and 50 PFN ones loaded with 4.2gn Tightgroup with a couple of issues.

The PFP still hang up on the feed ramp if placed in the top half of the magazine. If they are the first 5 rounds loaded into the mag they seem to work fine. They also shoot closer to the same POI as the PRN ones do but still a little lower on the target.

Initially I had an issue with both bullet profiles due to changing and adjusting my 9mm Turret to my Classic press to recrimp some factory rounds last month. Once the Turret was back in the Pro 1000 it seemed to be seating and crimping properly but wasn’t. Once I fixed this and adjusted the factory crimp die so that it just left the faintest mark on the bullet, something I had been advised to do when I started using plated projectiles in .45 but had forgotten with the 9mm rounds, the PRN functioned flawlessly. They were also much more accurate at IPSC distances with two rounds often only an inch or so apart in the A zone at 15 meters.

I have not yet had a chance to run this load across the chronograph, but I suspect it is a bit on the low side for Ppwer Factor. The next batch I load I will probably go to 4.3 gns of powder to correct this. And some long range work is also called for. But for the next few weeks it’ll be back to shooting .45 Auto as I have a single stack classsic match coming up.

 

[scooter123]

9mm Magazines for a 1911 that are reliable are WILSON COMBAT and nothing else. Yeah, they aren't cheap but Quality is NEVER cheap unless you take the Long Term viewpoint, then Quality becomes the most economical option.

Powder for 9mm that I've found to be excellent. BTW, actually started using this in 38 special and now that I'm loading 9mm have found it excellent in 9mm. The near and complete lack of any Position Sensitivity means that it is VERY consistent from shot to shot and that it's a clean shooting powder even in low pressure loadings like the 38 special. So, what is this magical powder. Hint it was originally developed for the 22 Long Rifle. As for the answer you'll probably complain it's too expensive because it is Vihtavouri 3N37. Yeah, it will cost more per load, perhaps even as much as a penny more. Note, see notes on the benefits of Quality before you decide it's "too expensive". Because "I Guaranteee" you will like it.

 

[WR Moore]

Depending upon the thickness of the plating, you may need/can use more crimp than "just a faint marking". You don't want to cut through the plating, but a wee bit more crimp might help.

The OAL I use on TC bullets is 1.088 in (give or take a few thousandths) and they feed like oats through a goose. On the other hand, I'm not trying to make .38 super mags work in a 1911. The advantage of the RN is that you get a longer OAL.

I don't know if they're available in NZ, but I've found Metalform 1911 mags to be excellent quality and not budget busters.

 

[Kiwi cop]

9mm Magazines for a 1911 that are reliable are WILSON COMBAT and nothing else. Yeah, they aren't cheap but Quality is NEVER cheap unless you take the Long Term viewpoint, then Quality becomes the most economical option.

Powder for 9mm that I've found to be excellent. BTW, actually started using this in 38 special and now that I'm loading 9mm have found it excellent in 9mm. The near and complete lack of any Position Sensitivity means that it is VERY consistent from shot to shot and that it's a clean shooting powder even in low pressure loadings like the 38 special. So, what is this magical powder. Hint it was originally developed for the 22 Long Rifle. As for the answer you'll probably complain it's too expensive because it is Vihtavouri 3N37. Yeah, it will cost more per load, perhaps even as much as a penny more. Note, see notes on the benefits of Quality before you decide it's "too expensive". Because "I Guaranteee" you will like it.

9 rounds 1911 9mm mags are readily available here, but using them negates the "advantage" of shooting minor PF over major in IPSC Classic Division, the additional two rounds.

10 round 9mm 1911 mags are hard to come by here, so much so that a few weeks ago at a comp I spoke to one competitor who has just forwarded a permit to import to a dealer for 10 mags. He only requires 6 but the dealer requested the other 4 for his inventory.

It's almost enough to make going back to major PF an easy choice.