Some interesting new ballistics testing for .38 special & .357 magnum

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IMO, this is a VERY worthwhile link. It is on each reader to interpret the results and to read the caveats, but this is useful info.

BoogersXDm, this is a great beginning. Welcome to the forum!
 
Those .38spl Barnes loads looked wicked. All jacket. Can you imagine what that would do to soft tissue? Like a Ginsu knife.
 
IMO, this is a VERY worthwhile link. It is on each reader to interpret the results and to read the caveats, but this is useful info.

BoogersXDm, this is a great beginning. Welcome to the forum!

I'm only paying it forward.

Your forum here has been a useful reference for me for almost 2 decades now.

Now I'm just gonna sit back here and wait for you guys to start discussing the results. So many knowledgeable folks hang out here it's why I thought of posting the link here first.
:)
 
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Many love to cuss and discuss the merits of different loads and bullet types, but the fact is that a plain lead or FMJ bullet will be good enough if you hit the target in the right area and if the bullet is moving fast enough to get there to do its job. I don't get hung up on the latest bullet of the week.
 
I wonder how much difference the none FBI gell makes. On this one it shows Gold Dot 135gr short barrel +P barely expanded but I've seen them on FBI gell shot from snub nose and they expanded beautifully

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Many love to cuss and discuss the merits of different loads and bullet types, but the fact is that a plain lead or FMJ bullet will be good enough if you hit the target in the right area and if the bullet is moving fast enough to get there to do its job. I don't get hung up on the latest bullet of the week.
A lot of IFs.

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....the fact is that a plain lead or FMJ bullet will be good enough if you hit the target in the right area and if the bullet is moving fast enough to get there to do its job.

No argument there. I think choosing a good load is just another little thing to stack in one's favor.

I'm also a little bit of a ballistics nerd myself.

I wonder how much difference the none FBI gell makes. On this one it shows Gold Dot 135gr short barrel +P barely expanded but I've seen them on FBI gell shot from snub nose and they expanded beautifully

I've seen differences in tests across the board. I would never attempt to claim any load is the "one to rule them all" first off, and certainly not based on one test.

Its just a very well done data point among many.

I think if someone is interested in stacking the deck in their favor (beyond, of course, carrying a gun in and of itself) by being picky about their load, the best thing they could do, short of taking the advice of people who actually have had to use such, is look over all the tests they can find.
 
No argument there. I think choosing a good load is just another little thing to stack in one's favor.

I'm also a little bit of a ballistics nerd myself.



I've seen differences in tests across the board. I would never attempt to claim any load is the "one to rule them all" first off, and certainly not based on one test.

Its just a very well done data point among many.

I think if someone is interested in stacking the deck in their favor (beyond, of course, carrying a gun in and of itself) by being picky about their load, the best thing they could do, short of taking the advice of people who actually have had to use such, is look over all the tests they can find.
I understand having variations but the two are very different. One test they expand as should and the other none at all (almost). Could be a batch difference or the gell. Only way to tell is to have as many of the variables as possible be the same. This wasn't

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110 Federal Hydra Sucks....
125 Shok .39dia. hellow...
158 Fed. at 794... .35 Dia. zero expansion
Horn. 110 FTX only 858fps .44 Dia. .... WOW!!
Rem. 125 GS 877fps .62 Dia. ......looking good.
Speer 135 821 (?) .44 dia. ............ fair

Each test has a low and high spot from the others.................

The 135 GD in my almost 2" gets 866fps.
Still nice to see more data and test, though.
 
Could be a batch difference or the gell.

I don't know.

I do know this isn't the only test I've seen where the Gold Dot is inconsistent.

<b>.38spl: Hornady FTX vs. Speer 135gr GDHP vs. CorBon 110gr DPX</b>

Pocket Guns and Gear: Speer Gold Dot 38 Special +P 135 Grain Short Barrel Denim and Clear Gel Test

ETA- This doesn't mean the Gold Dot is bunk. Far from it. Contrary to the tests above, I keep reading that police that use this load are happy with it. I like it fine myself.
 
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I was surprised the Speer gold dot didn't show better results with all the hype about them.
I also was surprised the 2" wasn't all that inferior to the 4" barrel as so many claim.
By this chart I feel carrying the +P is a good choice over the 357 because of the 357 cons over penetration, more flash, more recoil, deafening greater sound. What are your conclusions from this test?
 
I was surprised the Speer gold dot didn't show better results with all the hype about them.
I also was surprised the 2" wasn't all that inferior to the 4" barrel as so many claim.
By this chart I feel carrying the +P is a good choice over the 357 because of the 357 cons over penetration, more flash, more recoil, deafening greater sound. What are your conclusions from this test?

I think if you can handle a .357 snubnose you can't really go wrong. Its a world of difference between the magnum and the .38 special, which I would say is still more then adequate for the job at hand, should that be your choice.
 
A number of surprises there. I'll continue, for now, to carry the Buffalo Bore standard pressure equivalent of the good original FBI load, as I have for years; but I used to carry 125gr. +P Golden Saber, and it certainly performed well in these tests.
 
Just overall impressed....

Thanks for posting this and thanks to Lucky Gunner for doing such a good job of testing many mainstream loads under more realistic conditions, especially between 2" and 4", which really surprised me with some unexpected results that could make a difference into what I load with either length. If somebody asks what's best, I just tell them than any major brand's defense loadings will work and that advice doesn't seem too far off.

:):):)
 
Those .38spl Barnes loads looked wicked. All jacket. Can you imagine what that would do to soft tissue? Like a Ginsu knife.

Precisely why they aren't as impressive, not nearly, as the final maximum expanded bullet diameter would suggest. Tiny thin cuts don't do much damage, but a big dull crushing nose does. The final maximum diameter does not represent the average over all diameter of the expanded head, and the sharper the petals, the less disruption and crush they do, and the more low quality cut they do, meaning a rounder, more mushroom expanded face of the same diameter is far better, in fact, mushrooms with smaller final diameter probably do far better damage. Just take a good look at the minimum diameter, that's about right back down to original diameter, with big ol pie shapes missing. Not very impressive, not in the least.

As expected, the 110 grain bullets in 38 were terrible, either they had poor expansion to no expansion, or saw penetration failure. The 90 grain, as always, the laughing stock of the bunch. The 125's came in as failures as well, poor performance. Winchester's 130 grain bullets did fantastic, absolutely dead on the money, save for the PDX 2 inch barrel which can be discarded outright as unacceptable. Although other tests showed the 135 Gold Dot to have promise, according to this test, it flunked out. XTP appears to be too heavily constructed for 38 Special in this round of testing. Remington's FBI load was a top grade performer, but the others were clogged with denim or simply too hard a lead alloy to work properly.

2 inch barrel velocity losses for these two lengths showed that length and velocity can matter. The snub nose showed a lot more failure, and the difficulties faced with low energy bullet and proper designs.

357 Magnum wise, we see the engineering problem with excess handgun power. Penetrations over the 18 inch mark is common for this caliber, so not actually too surprising. Again, once you factor in the minimum expansion of Barnes, they aren't impressive in the least. 158 grain Gold Dot are under powered, so we can't get a good feel of the bullet's capability with better loading. Looking at bullets of all makes, fragmentation and "curl back" seem to be issues, curl back being where the expanded diameter begins to bend backwards so much that it crushes over and decreases the final expanded diameter. Barrel lengths and velocity change once again heavily altered performance, meaning load should match capability of gun.

In 4 inch barrel, the 135 grain Golddot stands head and shoulders bout the crowd, clearly. The 110 Corbon, being as light weigh as it is, came in very impressive, The 130 grain Hydoshock was superb and showed great consistency, making it a very viable choice. The PDX did well again, but its inferior expanded shape has to be taken into account, as well as final expanded irregularities.

The legendary old SJHP were the most interesting to see. The 125 grain failed utterly in the 2 inch barrel, but performed admirably in 4 inch, but showed signs of fragmentation. The 158 grain showed great shape and consistency in the 2 inch barrel, a worthy carry consideration, but in 4 inch it shows the same kind of mushroom shedding I found in my own test of the 158 grain SWCHP Speer handload. This would suggest a more sturdy bullet design is in order for this type of velocity.

Over all, very interesting results, and remember folks, keep watching more videos, reading more reports, and doing more research, because one test isn't as good as many valid tests. Gives me some direction on my own research into the future.
 
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Neat to see the "ancient" Hydra-Shok hold up well in these tests. I don't know why Winchester's offerings don't get more pub. They are GREAT in pretty much all of Luckygunner's tests.

Also neat to see that my logic is pretty sound. .38 should have heavier bullets since you're just not going to have the velocity. So I buy 158gr .38 JHPs and 125gr .357 JHPs. While I don't get into the .44 Mag self-defense too much, 165-200gr seems like the sweet spot there.
 
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