Someting odd I noticed about my new M&P9 Pro

[Heyman]

The front sight is slightly higher than the rear sight. If I align both sights properly, the pistol is actually pointing slightly downward. These are the factory Novak sights.

Also, the barrel is not perfectly round either. I'll take a picture of it along side my M&P20 Pro, and you'll be able to see that while the 40's barrel is perfectly round, the 9's barrel is not.

Does anyone else have a 9 Pro with similar characteristics as mine? I'll take pics when I get home tonight and post it up for you guys to look at.

 

[OKFC05]

The front sight is slightly higher than the rear sight. If I align both sights properly, the pistol is actually pointing slightly downward. These are the factory Novak sights.

Yes. So?
Boresight on handguns is usually below sight line due to recoil affecting POI. Handguns rotate when fired.

 

[Heyman]

Yes. So?
Boresight on handguns is usually below sight line due to recoil affecting POI. Handguns rotate when fired.

I don't think you're understanding. When I align my sights properly, the pistol is pointed down. In order for me to press the pistol straight forward, and have it not pointing down, the front sight is above my rear sight. This is normal. In other words, if I align the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sights, the muzzle points downward.

 

[OKFC05]

OK, I'll try once more.
ON A RIFLE the boreline through the barrel points UP in relation to the line of sight.

ON A PISTOL the boreline through the barrel points DOWN in relation to the line of sight. This is NECESSAARY to hit POA at normal pistol distances because the barrel rotates upward as the bullet travels down the barrel. The FRONT SIGHT is taller than the REAR SIGHT relative to the bore.
If both front and rear sights on a pistol were the same height above the bore, the pistol would shoot HIGH.
Your gun is not broken; go shoot and enjoy.

 

[Heyman]

OK, I'll try once more.
ON A RIFLE the boreline through the barrel points UP in relation to the line of sight.

ON A PISTOL the boreline through the barrel points DOWN in relation to the line of sight. This is NECESSAARY to hit POA at normal pistol distances because the barrel rotates upward as the bullet travels down the barrel. The FRONT SIGHT is taller than the REAR SIGHT relative to the bore.
If both front and rear sights on a pistol were the same height above the bore, the pistol would shoot HIGH.
Your gun is not broken; go shoot and enjoy.

I have never heard of this before. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's the first I'm hearing this. I've also shot many pistols and never had experienced this before. When you are aligning the front and rear sight, the muzzle should not be pointed down. That makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[Heyman]

This is how you're supposed to align pistol sights, and if I do this, the muzzle points downward.

Proper Sight Alignment and the Keys to Accuracy - USA Carry

 

[PirateJim]

Have you shot the gun yet? Does it shoot way low?

Er... On second thought, if the bore of the barrel isn't round (which, I must say, sounds quite unlikely) maybe you should get that looked into before you actually shoot the gun.

 

[Heyman]

Have you shot the gun yet? Does it shoot way low?

Er... On second thought, if the bore of the barrel isn't round (which, I must say, sounds quite unlikely) maybe you should get that looked into before you actually shoot the gun.

I did fire it and it did shoot low. I thought it was me. But then when I shot my 40, I was hitting center. Had my wife send me a picture. Tell me the barrel without the light attached to it doesn't look, not rounded. It's visible to the naked eye as well. I'll take a better picture tonight with both barrels removed.

 

[Heyman]

I found this thread that states the same issue I'm having. These 5 inch Pro's are coming with front sights that are too tall...

http://***************/mp-full-size-pistols/37270-m-p-pro-5inch-160-front-sight.html

***? This forum won't let me link to a thread on the M&P-pistol forum? Copy and paste the link below but put a "period" between pistol and com to make it pistol.com.

http://mp-pistolcom/mp-full-size-pistols/37270-m-p-pro-5inch-160-front-sight.html

 

[Heyman]

I think I figured out why the barrel looks off to me. While taking pictures with the barrel out of the slide, it looks like what I'm seeing is the rifling. I don't notice it on my 40 b/c it must've smoothed out with all the rounds I've send through it. However, I still stand by Smith putting a taller front sight on the 9 Pro that what it should be.

 

[CB3]

OK, I'll try once more.
ON A RIFLE the boreline through the barrel points UP in relation to the line of sight.

ON A PISTOL the boreline through the barrel points DOWN in relation to the line of sight. This is NECESSAARY to hit POA at normal pistol distances because the barrel rotates upward as the bullet travels down the barrel. The FRONT SIGHT is taller than the REAR SIGHT relative to the bore.
If both front and rear sights on a pistol were the same height above the bore, the pistol would shoot HIGH.
Your gun is not broken; go shoot and enjoy.

Absolute hogwash. Barrels don't point up or down. Sights are adjusted to work with a straight barrel that is perfectly aligned with the action, whether pistol or rifle. In order for the barrel to point up (or down), the action would have to also.

Diagrams indicating a rising bullet from a gun crossing the line of sight of the sights are misleading. Gun barrels are designed to fire absolutely level for absolute consistency. Sights, being relatively easy to adjust, compensate for the immediate downward trajectory of the bullet caused by gravity. Bullets do not come out of a barrel going up to at some point later in the trajectory start going down. Nope. Doesn't happen.

OP: Shoot from a solid rest at 10 yards with perfect sight alignment. On a defensive handgun, sight alignment is with the front sight (dot) COVERING the intended point of impact, not below it as in target shooting (six o'clock hold, pumpkin on a post). If the gun shoots low and you can adjust the sights, do so. Otherwise, return for warranty repair.

 

[agksimon]

I think I figured out why the barrel looks off to me. While taking pictures with the barrel out of the slide, it looks like what I'm seeing is the rifling. I don't notice it on my 40 b/c it must've smoothed out with all the rounds I've send through it. However, I still stand by Smith putting a taller front sight on the 9 Pro that what it should be.

The M&P 9 Compact and 4.25 inch barrel model use a .160 tall front sight, as measured off the slide. The 5 inch Pro uses a .180 tall front sight. The Compact and the 4.25 are made for close range and shoot to POA at distances of 7-10 yards, but several inches high at 25 yards.
The 5 inch Pro is used for competition at longer distances and is factory sighted for 25 yards, coupled with the longer sight radius, it needs the .180 tall front sight to shoot POA. Keep in mind the type of ammo used makes a huge difference in POA, especially at 25 yards. My stock barreled 5 inch Pro 9 shoots to POA and has the tightest groups (3-5 inches) at 25 yards, using American Eagle 147 grain flat point FMJ.
That will probably change next week, as I am getting an Apex gunsmith fit barrel. I'll probably have to switch ammo brands/weights and maybe the front sight, to get the most out of it.

 

[Heyman]

Absolute hogwash. Barrels don't point up or down. Sights are adjusted to work with a straight barrel that is perfectly aligned with the action, whether pistol or rifle. In order for the barrel to point up (or down), the action would have to also.

Diagrams indicating a rising bullet from a gun crossing the line of sight of the sights are misleading. Gun barrels are designed to fire absolutely level for absolute consistency. Sights, being relatively easy to adjust, compensate for the immediate downward trajectory of the bullet caused by gravity. Bullets do not come out of a barrel going up to at some point later in the trajectory start going down. Nope. Doesn't happen.

OP: Shoot from a solid rest at 10 yards with perfect sight alignment. On a defensive handgun, sight alignment is with the front sight (dot) COVERING the intended point of impact, not below it as in target shooting (six o'clock hold, pumpkin on a post). If the gun shoots low and you can adjust the sights, do so. Otherwise, return for warranty repair.

Thank you for confirming I'm not crazy and that the way I've been shooting for 20 years was not wrong. I will do what you suggested and take pictures of the target. TBH, from what I've read elsewhere, others have had issues with their 9 Pro's coming with a front sight that is too high, thus causing them to tilt the muzzle downwards a bit to properly align the top of the front and rear sights. This would of course cause the bullet impact to be low. I'll do as you suggest but already know my grouping will be low. TBH, I was thinking about picking up Dawson fibers anyway, since I like how you can pull the fiber into a recess so that the dot appears perfectly round.

 

[Heyman]

The M&P 9 Compact and 4.25 inch barrel model use a .160 tall front sight, as measured off the slide. The 5 inch Pro uses a .180 tall front sight. The Compact and the 4.25 are made for close range and shoot to POA at distances of 7-10 yards, but several inches high at 25 yards.
The 5 inch Pro is used for competition at longer distances and is factory sighted for 25 yards, coupled with the longer sight radius, needs the .180 tall front sight. Keep in mind the type of ammo used makes a huge difference in POA, especially at 25 yards. My stock barreled 5 inch Pro 9 shoots to POA and has the tightest groups (3-5 inches) at 25 yards, using American Eagle 147 grain flat point FMJ.
That will probably change next week, as I am getting an Apex gunsmith fit barrel. I'll probably have to switch ammo brands/weights and maybe the front sight, to get the most out of it.

Thank you for your input and confirming the 9 Pro comes with a taller front sight. My confusion however is, why does the rear sight appear to be not as tall? Why do I have to point the muzzle end down a bit to properly align the top of the front and rear sights? What am I doing wrong or missing?

 

[oldtimer48]

I have a 2009 mp 5" pro 9mm and I had to change the front sight as well with a lower one from Dawson Precision. Even after swapping to a .160 front sight it still shot low. I now have a .0145 on the front and it seems about right. The 2009 pro has hardly any wear showing. I shoot a easy 2k- 4k rounds a year through various hand guns, 9mm,40 sw, 45acp.
So there is something to it as to why smith would put so tall a front sight on the gun. I am also using the stock rear sight as well, so what I am saying he is not the only one experiencing this.