What is your preference? Pros and cons? I have been using moon clips with my 686 PC, but bought an HKS speed loader over the weekend. Unable to find a leather moon clip carrier, but found one for my speed loader. What do you guys think?
Speed loader or full moon clip
- Thread starter Robert B
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Rpg
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No contest: full moon clip.
There is no intrinsic difference in loading speed between speed loaders and moon clips, but speed loaders require more practice to even them up. My main reason for liking them is what Robert B just said - they make unloading a more certain experience. Holders for moons are also less bulky to aid concealment.
Buck
Buck
Yup, emphasis on training. I have to use speed loaders since I carry a 624 but with a little effort reloads are very fast.I combine my dry fire with reload drills. About 20 minutes in the evening.
HarrishMasher
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There is no competition here. Moon clips are simply the fastest way to load and unload your revolver. A Speedloader really doesn't come close.
I can load and unload a revolver cut for moons just as fast as I can unload and load a semi auto. Can't do that with a speedloader.
Moons are so much easier to carry as well. Much less bulk and more malleable in your pocket.
I can load and unload a revolver cut for moons just as fast as I can unload and load a semi auto. Can't do that with a speedloader.
Moons are so much easier to carry as well. Much less bulk and more malleable in your pocket.
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Pizza Bob
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Speed loaders or moon clips?? Too simplistic a question with too many variables to factor in.
I think that moon clips for .45 ACP are absolutely the fastest. Big heavy round-nose bullet on a short case, practically loads itself. Moon clip fit is not too critical and cartridge jiggle doesn't adversely affect speed.
Full length .357's or even .38's are another story altogether. A long cartridge with loose fitting moon clips can be very difficult to load quickly. The same cartridges used in the type of speed loader that holds the cartridges rigidly makes them much easier, thus faster, to load.
I shoot a 586 using .38 Spl RN in IDPA. I use Safariland Comp III's, which I think are probably faster than loading the same round via moon clips. The speed loader holds the cartridges rigidly and the body of the loader gives you a sure grasp for good cartridge to charge hole alignment. That combined with chamfered charge holes in the cylinder make for fast reloads. Unfortunately, Comp III's are rather large for concealed carry.
I shoot a 627-4 (.38 Super) in USPSA and evaluated 4 different brands of moon clips before I found one that held the cartridges rigidly enough to make loading fast and easy - still not as fast as a .45, but on par with my 586 with Comp III's.
You also have the differences with speed loaders. HKS and 5-Star use the insert and twist the knob mechanism - that's fine for casual loading at the range, but since they require two separate and distinct motions (insert then twist) are slower than speed loaders like the Safariland Comp II (sized more suitably for carry) that only require the insertion motion and release the cartridges on (firm) contact with the extractor star - no separate motion.
With either option, as has been pointed out, practice is mandatory to become proficient.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
I think that moon clips for .45 ACP are absolutely the fastest. Big heavy round-nose bullet on a short case, practically loads itself. Moon clip fit is not too critical and cartridge jiggle doesn't adversely affect speed.
Full length .357's or even .38's are another story altogether. A long cartridge with loose fitting moon clips can be very difficult to load quickly. The same cartridges used in the type of speed loader that holds the cartridges rigidly makes them much easier, thus faster, to load.
I shoot a 586 using .38 Spl RN in IDPA. I use Safariland Comp III's, which I think are probably faster than loading the same round via moon clips. The speed loader holds the cartridges rigidly and the body of the loader gives you a sure grasp for good cartridge to charge hole alignment. That combined with chamfered charge holes in the cylinder make for fast reloads. Unfortunately, Comp III's are rather large for concealed carry.
I shoot a 627-4 (.38 Super) in USPSA and evaluated 4 different brands of moon clips before I found one that held the cartridges rigidly enough to make loading fast and easy - still not as fast as a .45, but on par with my 586 with Comp III's.
You also have the differences with speed loaders. HKS and 5-Star use the insert and twist the knob mechanism - that's fine for casual loading at the range, but since they require two separate and distinct motions (insert then twist) are slower than speed loaders like the Safariland Comp II (sized more suitably for carry) that only require the insertion motion and release the cartridges on (firm) contact with the extractor star - no separate motion.
With either option, as has been pointed out, practice is mandatory to become proficient.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
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Not only can you use moon clips in .38 and .357 cylinders properly cut for them, but you have the advantage of using that cylinder with or without the moon clips at your discretion -- they aren't required for proper headspace clearance.
TK Custom, probably the most established name in aftermarket machining for moon clips, charges a little more for counterbored cylinders, but it's entirely doable.
HarrishMasher
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Just about every S&W PC 357/38 comes from the factory with the cylinder cut to accept moon clips. They even have a few pro models where the cylinder is cut for moons as well.
You can have the cylinder on any 357/38 cut (recessed) to accept moon clips. And you can fire it without moon clips even if the cylinder is cut.
Moon clips are simply the fastest way to load and unload your revolver.
HarrishMasher
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It is all about having the proper moon clip for the brass you are using. If the rounds are tight, even with 357/38 they drop right in like 45acp.
As you know, Moon Clips come in different thicknesses. You just have to find the right thickness for the brass you are using and they rounds stay nice and snug in there.
I find the nickel plated moons that are .025" fit most of the brass I use very nicely. My rounds just fall right in, even on my 7 and 8-shot guns. So much faster than a speedloader for me.
You do make a good point though, short and fat rounds will definitely be easier to load quicker than long and thin rounds. But with the right moon clip, the difference is not too noticeable.
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Ask Jerry.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw[/ame]
Pizza Bob
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The above video is a prime example of practice makes perfect. Jerry almost throws the loaded moon clip into the cylinder from several inches away - of course he's done that thousands and thousands of times.
625 Shooter
Member
I'll respectfully disagree.
I believe there IS an intrinsic difference between moon clips and speedloaders.
Of course, practice can and will narrow the gap, but nothing can beat speedloaders.
Moon clips simply drop in (or get 'tossed' in) and speedloaders require additional movement (which equals time) to push or twist a knob. While the difference in dexterity and motions required may be small, the moon clip will win (when in the hands of comparatively skilled shooters.)
Look at the top level shooters in ICORE, for example. There is a separate Division for speedloader revolvers (called Classic Div). But if you look at the overall results of the International Revolver Competition and/or Regional matches, I'll speculate you'll seldom see top Classic Div shooters above the top Limited Div shooters. (I'll have to find time to analyze that. Preferably going back to the days before the 8-shot reigned.)
I understand and agree that moon clips are inherently faster with all things being equal. My thing is that what ever you choose train and practice with it. I see shooters trying to buy marksmanship and speed instead of training and practicing. Usually all they gain is more stuff they don't use and a lighter wallet. Train train train
I'm a data point of exactly one -- and all that that implies
-- but worth adding to the conversation that I've pocket carried moon clips for years (and I'm an active fellow) and never had one damaged; I think they're a lot more durable for every day carry than given credit for. I've only found flimsiness to be an issue when making the mistake of trying to insert or remove rounds without a tool.You do lose the ability to do a partial reload, but gain the ability to do a tactical one.
gtoppcop
Member
Practice, Practice, Practice will make any delivery system faster. All told, I use both on my 627-5 Pro Series and 686-6 Plus.
Harrish is right, the CORRECT thickness of Full Moons makes all of the difference in the world. I use clips in .022, .024 and .025 thicknesses. That way, you're assured of a good fit.
A note of order is needed: Make sure that the cylinder's charge holes are aggressively chamfered. Every little bit helps.
For carrying the clips, I like the Blade-Tech Full Moon Clip Holders. If they don't work for you, try an old loop loader. They work well.
The revolver is a wonderful example of disparate ways that it can be reloaded. I use the speed loader (5-Shot variety) for my 627 8-shot and 686 7-shot. I also use the Full Moons and will also use the 2X2X2 loaders. With a modicum of practice, they are indeed fast.
Just my paltry $.02 worth of free advice. Good luck!
Harrish is right, the CORRECT thickness of Full Moons makes all of the difference in the world. I use clips in .022, .024 and .025 thicknesses. That way, you're assured of a good fit.
A note of order is needed: Make sure that the cylinder's charge holes are aggressively chamfered. Every little bit helps.
For carrying the clips, I like the Blade-Tech Full Moon Clip Holders. If they don't work for you, try an old loop loader. They work well.
The revolver is a wonderful example of disparate ways that it can be reloaded. I use the speed loader (5-Shot variety) for my 627 8-shot and 686 7-shot. I also use the Full Moons and will also use the 2X2X2 loaders. With a modicum of practice, they are indeed fast.
Just my paltry $.02 worth of free advice. Good luck!
