Speedloader vs NY Reload Experiment

[wadcutter1]

I did a little experiment at the range yesterday to compare the time it takes to reload with a speed loader vs using a backup gun. The range doesn't allow drawing from a holster so the guns and speed loaders were placed on the table in front of me. The exercise was:
1) Press start on my iPhone timer.
2) Pick up model 10 and fire 6 aimed shots.
3) Put down the 10 and pickup either speed loader (Safariland comp iii) or 638
4) Fire one 5-6 more aimed rounds.
5) Put down the gun and stop the timer.

Times with the speed loader averaged about 22 seconds. Times with the 638 averaged about 17 seconds. While I expected the speed loader would take longer, I was surprised how much faster the back up gun was. I wasn't trying to rush it, but if I was I imagine the difference would be even more dramatic.

I'm not sure if this has much of a practical impact on me, as I'd carry my Glock 23 rather than two revolvers, but I thought it was interesting from at least a historical perspective. I think I'll reread "Tales of the Stakeout Squad".

Anyone else try this, or have similar comparison drills to suggest?

 

[petepeterson]

Are you saying that the speedloader was faster? Or did you type it backwards?

 

[jonh1373]

Very interesting test but not very scientific. You have not taken into account where the speed loader is carried and how quickly and smoothly you can get it into your hand and how proficient you are in actually reloading your gun. Same with the backup, where is it located, can you retrieve it through your clothing and deploy it. What are you going to do with your first gun if you go for a backup?
Unless you are in an offensive situation such as law enforcement do you really think you will need more than one or two rounds to defend yourself? If you haven't carried a gun much I think you will find it heavy and having to think every step you take while carrying so you don't wind up at a school or airport, etc. with a gun you don't want. I think a lot of CC holders over think the whole carry idea of a defensive role. I have read posts on other forums where CC holders want to carry a high capacity auto with two backup magazines AND a backup gun. I realize with terrorism on the rise there are situations to consider but you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning several times than encountering one of these situations. I would think to be proficient with a good J frame and carry it would cover 99% of defensive situations. Just my .02.

 

[wadcutter1]

Are you saying that the speedloader was faster? Or did you type it backwards?

I typed it backwards. Now corrected.

 

[wadcutter1]

Very interesting test but not very scientific. You have not taken into account where the speed loader is carried and how quickly and smoothly you can get it into your hand and how proficient you are in actually reloading your gun. Same with the backup, where is it located, can you retrieve it through your clothing and deploy it.......I would think to be proficient with a good J frame and carry it would cover 99% of defensive situations. Just my .02.

I would carry either the speed loader or j frame in the same place: right coat pocket so I assumed the time to get it out is about the same. Actually, the 638 would probably be faster as the speed loaders tend to move around, whereas the 638 stays in the same position.

I'm sure a single j-frame is fine 99% of the time. In my 44 years I've drawn a gun for defense 0% of the days. In any case, this was really just a fun exercise for me.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

A person's physical condition is also a factor here. God never graced me with good eye/hand coordination, nor great hand speed either. Over the years, I've developed arthritis in my hands and wrists, and that has played havoc with my manual dexterity and strength. To that end, my EDC generally consists of a Model 638-1 and my NY Reload, a Model 38-0. I usually carry a fully loaded 8 round speed strip as well, because I'm from the "it's not much of a gun without bullets" school of thought. I realize the chances of me getting into a life or death encounter and needing a handgun are pretty slim, and the chances of needing a reload is even slimmer, but it's kind of like needing a parachute...if you need one and don't have it, you won't likely every need one again.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Buford57]

One or two comments:

I'm assuming that on the speedloader reload you fired one more shot than with the NYR. That shouldn't cause a 5 second difference, but still a factor, as one additional round went down range.

If you are laying the M10 down when reloading with the speedloader you either aren't approximating a real world scenario or haven't trained right. You would be ejecting empties with your left while picking up the speedloader with your right. If the range rules prohibit it I wouldn't be surprised. Try it both ways with snap caps at home and see if your times aren't closer.

This from an old duffer who used to carry (and train with) both a speedloader and a NYR.

 

[GatorFarmer]

I carried multiple handguns, plenty of ammo, and wore armor for years. No one really noticed or cared. You get used to the weight. People pay perfectly good money to join a gym and exercise far more.

A magazine change in an auto can often be quicker if you work at it than unholstering another gun. To this days I can still swap mags pretty fast, though can no longer do the once vaunted by gun magazines one second reload.

An exception is if you already have your other gun in your other hand. Then just shoot your guns one at a time. That is one way to work cap n ball revolvers.

 

[colt_saa]

You can do a NY reload while still shooting. That is a heck of alot faster than any speedloader.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

You can do a NY reload while still shooting. That is a heck of alot faster than any speedloader.

, and far better looking to boot.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Very interesting test but not very scientific. You have not taken into account where the speed loader is carried and how quickly and smoothly you can get it into your hand and how proficient you are in actually reloading your gun. Same with the backup, where is it located, can you retrieve it through your clothing and deploy it. What are you going to do with your first gun if you go for a backup?

This is the concern I have. The difference in speed is dependent on a lot of things, including where the back-up gun is carried vs. where the speedloaders are carried. For example, while I haven't done it, I imagine that I would probably be faster reloading my revolver using Comp I speedloaders from my JOX pouches on my belt than drawing a second gun from an ankle holster under the jeans I normally wear. Further, any difference would likely be negligible. At the same time, drawing a second gun from a coat pocket could very well be faster than reloading from a speed strip while wearing gloves.

Having said that, I've always liked the idea of carrying a pair of J-frames.

 

[wadcutter1]

If you are laying the M10 down when reloading with the speedloader you either aren't approximating a real world scenario or haven't trained right.

Yes, of course I didn't put down the model 10 to reload it. My shooting is better than my typing, which isn't saying much I'll admit, but I know enough to not put down a revolver to reload it

I'd be curious to see other peoples times. Try it out and post your results.

 

[jonh1373]

You can do a NY reload while still shooting. That is a heck of alot faster than any speedloader.

By golly that is a new one to me!! Interesting.

 

[Donn]

I'm sure a single j-frame is fine 99% of the time. In my 44 years I've drawn a gun for defense 0% of the days. In any case, this was really just a fun exercise for me.

I agree. There's something to be said for a NY reload. Tried it a few times, felt very self-conscious packing two guns, but that's me. YMMV.

 

[Arik]

Very interesting test but not very scientific. You have not taken into account where the speed loader is carried and how quickly and smoothly you can get it into your hand and how proficient you are in actually reloading your gun. Same with the backup, where is it located, can you retrieve it through your clothing and deploy it. What are you going to do with your first gun if you go for a backup?
Unless you are in an offensive situation such as law enforcement do you really think you will need more than one or two rounds to defend yourself? If you haven't carried a gun much I think you will find it heavy and having to think every step you take while carrying so you don't wind up at a school or airport, etc. with a gun you don't want. I think a lot of CC holders over think the whole carry idea of a defensive role. I have read posts on other forums where CC holders want to carry a high capacity auto with two backup magazines AND a backup gun. I realize with terrorism on the rise there are situations to consider but you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning several times than encountering one of these situations. I would think to be proficient with a good J frame and carry it would cover 99% of defensive situations. Just my .02.

This is most likely true but I've seen enough self defense situations where there were several aggressors and a 5 shots wasn't enough. These were not hardened criminals just drunk punks looking to pick on someone. In each case the leader or the instigator took several shots without a care and his buddies didn't seem phased by the fact that there was a gun

 

[Arik]

 

[Arik]

This is probably my favorite NY reload

 

[Arik]

Where did you "see" these situations? And how many would be enough?

There have been a few in my city. One that really made the news was that of a VA college student in my city with a VA carry permit who defended himself and his girlfriend against 4 guys. The main instigator took 5 rounds and didn't stop. Turned out to be some connected lawyer's nephew. If that student didn't call the cops and wait for them, which was all cough on camera, he would be in prison now.

How many is enough? No idea but if I can have 7 over 6 I will. If I can have 10 over 7 I will. If I can have 15 over 10 I will. After all why do you need 5 if there are guns with 2 rounds? Isn't the avg 2?

No one ever complained of having too much ammo. Besides my gun with 16 rounds weighs as much as a model 36 with 5 rounds. It's thinner and it takes up about as much space. So all things being close enough why wouldn't I take more ammo.

 

[kthom]

Unless I am mistaken, speedloaders were not a common think back in the day when Jim Cirillo recommended the NYC. In any case, if they were, under the circumstances that Mr Cirillo was using and reloading his revolver(s), I'd say that reaching for and securing a second loaded revolver would have been much less likely to fumble than a speedloader might have been. As has been mentioned, where and how the speedloader is carried makes a lot of difference in how quickly it can be reached, drawn in the right orientation to use quickly, and used efficiently. I have always found that the flaps that cover the speedloaders when worn in a belt carry pouch could get in the way and be problematic when in a hurry to removed the speed loaders. OF course, where and how the second handgun is carried could also negatively affect the time necessary to get it in operation. Mostly either method needs lots of good careful practice to become efficient in practice, especially under extreme duress!

 

[Arik]

Having said that ....you have to decide by where you live. If your closest town is 1000 people and youre daily life revolves around home and local store you may have no need for more. But if your closest town is 1.5 million and you live in the middle of a 6 million people metro area and your job sometimes requires your to drive to different places of the metro area.....well there's all kinds of neighborhoods and people and possibilities