Speer 135gr GDHP Snubnose Load?

[K357]

One of the most recommended factory loads for the 2" barrel .38/.357 revolver is the Speer 135gr Gold Dot Hollow Point - Short Barrel 38 Spcl +P load. Speer developed this load for 2" revolvers with a specifically designed bullet with deep hollowpoint that has 7 fracture lines for expansion. It is reported this load expands reliably but holds together with the bonded jacket.

The factory load gives 860 fps and low flash out of a 2" barrel. The 135gr GDHP short barrel bullet is available as a reloading component from Speer.

Does anyone have any experience loading this bullet to duplicate the factory short barrel load? I would think a faster burn rate powder to develop velocity within 2" and also keep down the flash in low light. Particularly interested if you have checked your load through a chronograph. Thanks.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

There was a lot of discussion and load development done to replicate that load a few years ago. There are probably several threads. According to all the work I did and speaking to the Speer Reps AA#5 is probably the best powder to replicate that .38 Special load. For inexpensive practice use the 140gr Hornady XTP bullet.

 

[GCF]

Check Post #28 - in this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/464610-speer-135-grain-gold-dot-38-sp-p-357-magnum.html

 

[3five7]

Speer Reloading Manual #14 has load data for the Speer 135 gr Gold Dot Short Barrel bullet. They have velocities listed out of a short barrel.

 

[Nevada Ed]

+1 on post #2;

The 140 XTP is a great way to test out loads to duplicate the factory 135gr loading.
This is with an Alliant powder but they all work with testing & chrony at hand.

 

[drifterdon]

Ed, Dumb question but do you think the 135gr Speer Gold Dot and the 140gr XTP are basically interchangeable? I have 500 XTPs coming this week and want to try to replicate the GD performance. Any issues with pressure between the two?

Thanks

 

[eb07]

One of the most recommended factory loads for the 2" barrel .38/.357 revolver is the Speer 135gr Gold Dot Hollow Point - Short Barrel 38 Spcl +P load. Speer developed this load for 2" revolvers with a specifically designed bullet with deep hollowpoint that has 7 fracture lines for expansion. It is reported this load expands reliably but holds together with the bonded jacket.

The factory load gives 860 fps and low flash out of a 2" barrel. The 135gr GDHP short barrel bullet is available as a reloading component from Speer.

Does anyone have any experience loading this bullet to duplicate the factory short barrel load? I would think a faster burn rate powder to develop velocity within 2" and also keep down the flash in low light. Particularly interested if you have checked your load through a chronograph. Thanks.

Here is my data:

https://thedesertsedge.wordpress.co...lf-defense-rounds-for-the-snub-nose-revolver/

Both loads I got closest are listed as well as a bunch more chrono data:

For those interested in duplicating the Speer 135gr Gold Dot Short Barrel 38+P load 6.4gr of Power Pistol was the best combination I found to match recoil and velocity.

For those interested in duplicating the Speer 135gr gold Dot Short Barrel 357 Magnum load, 8.8gr of Power Pistol was the best combination I found to match recoil and velocity.

 

[rwsmith]

The folks here.....

One of the most recommended factory loads for the 2" barrel .38/.357 revolver is the Speer 135gr Gold Dot Hollow Point - Short Barrel 38 Spcl +P load. Speer developed this load for 2" revolvers with a specifically designed bullet with deep hollowpoint that has 7 fracture lines for expansion. It is reported this load expands reliably but holds together with the bonded jacket.

The factory load gives 860 fps and low flash out of a 2" barrel. The 135gr GDHP short barrel bullet is available as a reloading component from Speer.

Does anyone have any experience loading this bullet to duplicate the factory short barrel load? I would think a faster burn rate powder to develop velocity within 2" and also keep down the flash in low light. Particularly interested if you have checked your load through a chronograph. Thanks.

The folks here recently figured out that the 'fast powder is better in a short barrel' thing isn't true. We had a VERY thorough grilling on this with members that had actual number to back them up. Medium powder can get hot but the highest velocities are had with the slower powders.

I don't know if you are looking for a maximum velocity as even good standard pressure cartridges are used by many for close up with small guns.

I've shot 140 gr JHPs with good results. Lyman says they got 838 fps with 8 gr of Blue Dot out of a 4" test barrel. Similar should be good for the 135 gr. GDHP

 

[Erich]

With the 6.4 grain of Power Pistol loading (factory data) and the Speer 135-gr short barrel Gold Dot, I got the following velocities (5950' > sea level, 10% humidity, winds calm, 58° F):

From the 3" 36-1: M 917.8/ES 75.9/SD 24.59
From the 2 1/8" DS: M 863.6/ES 59.7/SD 19.65
From the 1 7/8" 37-2: M 854.3/ES 78.9/SD 40.66

The same load chrono'd much faster from a 1 7/8" LCR on a warmer day, so - like anything - it's gun-dependent and some guns like some loads more than others. I thought this data might be of interest, however.

I use a good bit more than what eb07 lists for what I consider to be light-ish .357 Magnum loads. You all might want to take a gander at the 4th printing of the Speer #14 manual - some data there.

 

[eb07]

With the 6.4 grain of Power Pistol loading (factory data) and the Speer 135-gr short barrel Gold Dot, I got the following velocities (5950' > sea level, 10% humidity, winds calm, 58° F):

From the 3" 36-1: M 917.8/ES 75.9/SD 24.59
From the 2 1/8" DS: M 863.6/ES 59.7/SD 19.65
From the 1 7/8" 37-2: M 854.3/ES 78.9/SD 40.66

The same load chrono'd much faster from a 1 7/8" LCR on a warmer day, so - like anything - it's gun-dependent and some guns like some loads more than others. I thought this data might be of interest, however.

I use a good bit more than what eb07 lists for what I consider to be light-ish .357 Magnum loads. You all might want to take a gander at the 4th printing of the Speer #14 manual - some data there.

I stuck with the 6.4 in my lcr for three reasons.

1. it is accurate
2. The recoil is great
3. 58 is cold here. I regularly get temps above 80. Above 100 in the summer (May until October) this pushes my loads into the high 900 to 1000fps range. Plenty enough to expand the round. The issues not expanding have been down in the 800fps range.

My magnum rounds with 9.6gr power pistol push the 1200 FPS range in summer. A little overkill out if the lcr imho. I think 950-1000 is the sweet spot for me.

I use the 158s in my service length revolvers.

 

[Erich]

I concur. 6.4 is great from my LCR. Again, my Magnum load is someone hotter than yours; I use it in the Rhino.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Drifterdon post 6;

In my test with the Hornady bullets, I have found them to be
a little harder to expand then some of the other company JHP's.

The lead and copper thickness, plus the fps all play a part on
what the bullet will do when it strikes a surface.

I read a hornady thread where they state that the 140 gr will
expand in the 700 fps zone and have three loads from 734 to
842 fps that will be tested on water jugs, when I get time.

Companies try to get them right....... and do a lot of testing
before they put their SD ammo out to the public.
Good reports, sells more ammo !!

However there are times when things don't work out.
I have one 125gr Gold dot shot out of a J snub at 836fps that
went through 18" of water jugs and stopped against a back up
board, with no sign of ever starting to open up. Just too thick
of a jacket to work at this low speed.

You might try a water test to see if they will work for you.......
Price wise, the XTP is a great practice load and may be a good SD bullet.
Good shooting.

 

[eb07]

I concur. 6.4 is great from my LCR. Again, my Magnum load is someone hotter than yours; I use it in the Rhino.

I am really interested to know what you are using and velocities you are getting . You can pm if you don't want to post here. I appreciate it!

 

[eb07]

Drifterdon post 6;

In my test with the Hornady bullets, I have found them to be
a little harder to expand then some of the other company JHP's.

The lead and copper thickness, plus the fps all play a part on
what the bullet will do when it strikes a surface.

I read a hornady thread where they state that the 140 gr will
expand in the 700 fps zone and have three loads from 734 to
842 fps that will be tested on water jugs, when I get time.

Companies try to get them right....... and do a lot of testing
before they put their SD ammo out to the public.
Good reports, sells more ammo !!

However there are times when things don't work out.
I have one 125gr Gold dot shot out of a J snub at 836fps that
went through 18" of water jugs and stopped against a back up
board, with no sign of ever starting to open up. Just too thick
of a jacket to work at this low speed.

You might try a water test to see if they will work for you.......
Price wise, the XTP is a great practice load and may be a good SD bullet.
Good shooting.

In actual scientific testing for law enforcement agencies only the following (actual quote) : Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP, Winchester 130 gr bonded +P JHP (RA38B), and Barnes 110 gr XPB all copper JHP (for ex. in the Corbon DPX loading) offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2" BUG; Hornady 110 gr standard pressure and +P Critical Defense loads also offer good performance out of 2" barrel revolvers.

Of course temperature affects this and the colder it is the less velocity resulting in some reports of failure to expand of the 135gr Speer gold dot in NYPD shooting reports. This means it acts as a fmj round.

This is why a lot of people choose to carry the 148gr wad cutters because they cut a wound channel.

The above are the only rounds I would personally carry for self defense in a snub.

 

[fredj338]

I've only run them at the moderate 357mag vel. They expand well at 1150fps. I actually prefer the old school 158gr LSWCHP in a 38sp+P load. They seem to always expand some @ snub vel of 775-850fps.

 

[BE Mike]

Here's what I got when I tested factory against my reloads using the Speer 135 gr. bullet:

S&W 642 .38 SPL Gold Dot Factory 135 gr. 881fps, 893


S&W 642 .38 SPL reloads GD 135 gr. 807fps, 798, 785
6.4 gr. Power Pistol

S&W model 60,.357 Mag. Gold Dot Factory 135 gr. 1387fps
3" barrel

.357 Mag. Reloads, 9.6 gr. Power Pistol, GD 135 gr. 1222fps, 1226
S&W model 60, 3" bbl. with .38 SPL reload 894fps
6.4 gr. Power Pistol

 

[rasmith3442]

Hodgdon Universal

If you have a Sierra manual check out the 140 grain .38 special loads using Hodgdon Universal.

I have no problem getting 950 +/- in a couple of 2-1/8" 649's with the middle of the chart load. Extreme spreads are about 50 FPS, which is quite acceptable to me. Since Sierra does not publish pressure data, I will assume that it is a standard pressure load.

I have yet to find a powder that does not produce a football size bright yellow flash in a J Frame, including factory ammo. That being said, I have standardized on the mid-range Universal load as it gives very good velocity at (hopefully) standard pressures.

YMMV. S/F,

RAS aka Walter