Split Cases - Starline .44 Special Brass

[Marcruger]

Problem Needing Advice:
Two split .44 Special cases. Identically split down the side, at a slight angle, but no case mouth split.

Load:
Starline .44 Special Brass (2nd or 3rd loading)
Hornady XTP 200 grain JHP
Unique 7.2 grains weighed to 1/10th grain
Winchester Large Pistol Primers

Revolver:
S&W Model 24-6 Classic revolver with 6.5” barrel, N-frame. Model 29 length cylinder with shorter chambers. Same metallurgy as Model 29 in .44 Magnum.

Notes:
I have never had a case split on firing in the past. I have shot hundreds of these loads in this revolver, and many more in .44 Magnum revolvers with no issues. This batch of three hundred was loaded single-stage, all powder charges individually weighed to 1/10th grain, and visually verified. What can I say, I am anal retentive when it comes to handloading.

In this session, I shot all but 12 rounds with no issues at all, and cases would fall free if revolver was tipped up. On the next-to-last cylinder full, I shot all of the rounds and went to eject. The ejector rod wouldn’t move. I tipped the cylinder up, and five cases fell free, showing me the offending case. I got out my cleaning rod and pushed the case out. This case was split down the side, but not at the mouth. Odd, but may just be a bad piece of brass I thought.

Last cylinder full. Same exact thing happened. The case looks to be an exact duplicate of the other split case. No more unfired rounds to try out of this batch of 300. No signs of pressure on other brass.

No, I don’t know if it was the same chamber or not where the two rounds stuck. They are not numbered chambers, and I did not think to somehow mark it for the future.

I do not think the issue is pressure. This was a recommended load for the revolver in Handloader. However, how do I end up with two identically split cases, in back-to-back cylinders full, after never having split cases ever before? The gun has been a champ in the past, with never an issue in any way including ejecting cases. Starline brass has always been super in the past. Cases are cleaned by tumbling in walnut shell media. No chemicals added. Is my sizing die sizing the brass down too small, and it then expands too much when firing?

I would sure appreciate some advice folks! I am an engineer, and am fussy about my loading to put it mildly. I have never had an issue before. Best wishes, Marc

 

[muddocktor]

The 44 Special isn't a high pressure load, so I am leaning towards defective brass myself. 2 or 3 reloads is getting enough resizing/firing cycles on it for brass to start work hardening a little and making a split more likely to happen. I would closely insect all chambers on your cylinder for any unusual markings or blemishes, but I just don't see any 44 Special loads damaging an N frame cylinder.

I've never had any problems in the past with Starline brass cases, but I have had problems with their nickel plated 357 brass splitting (mostly at the case mouth) after being reloaded 3-4 times and had to junk the brass.

 

[rockquarry]

Regardless of maker, many have found nickeled handgun brass doesn't last long because of case mouth splits.

 

[Bosquebass]

I've had 38 special cases split as you describe but that was after many, many times being reloaded.

I think maybe you just have some weak brass. 7.2 of Unique should be fine in that gun. The only wild card in the deck would be if one or more chambers were finished oversize at the factory.

 

[torizus]

If you have any left from the same loading, I would try some in a different gun,preferably a 29 or like. If it doesn't re-occur then a look at the 24 chambers might be in order. (mark your chambers)

 

[ontargetagain]

Maybe pull a bullet or two if you have remaining rounds and double check your powder charge.
Check your sizing die for internal damage or debris that may have scored and weakened the brass on the inside.

It is the weakest link that will always fail in any system, as mentioned could have simply been time for failure in that area of the cases.
Karl

 

[Marcruger]

Many thanks for the advice folks.

The cases are just normal brass, fyi, not nickel plated.

I do not have any more left from that batch to pull bullets from and check. That said, I always single-stage load, and I hand weigh each charge going into each case. I then go back with a flashlight and compare the level in each case. I am trying to get as close to foolproof as possible with charging cases.

I did look at the other fired brass, and don't see any scoring from any sort of rubbish stuck in the die. I think I can discount that.

Puzzling thing is, this is the stoutest load ever fired through this Model 24-6, and it should be well below pressures that cylinder can take. Up until the last two cylinder-fulls of cartridges, there was no issue with sticking. Ever.

Maybe it is the brass getting work hardened. I haven't marked them as to how many times they've been reloaded, so perhaps a couple or more got through the process more than I am aware of. I think maybe I should ditch this batch of brass in any event. I have plenty.

Many thanks again o' gurus of the S&W forum.

Best wishes, Marc

 

[hdwhit]

Marcruger wrote:
Load:
Starline .44 Special Brass (2nd or 3rd loading)
Hornady XTP 200 grain JHP
Unique 7.2 grains weighed to 1/10th grain
Winchester Large Pistol Primers

While 7.2 grains of Unique is under maximum load per both the Alliant powder website and Lyman #49, it is 0.2 grains ABOVE maximum per Hornday #9 and 0.3 grains ABOVE maximum per Speer #11, so don't dismiss pressure as a failure mode.

Also, carefully inspect the cylinder of the gun and each chamber in it. Going by Hornady and Speer (and you are shooting Hornady bullets, after all) you have shot hundreds of over maximum loads through the pistol, so you could possibly have a chamber with a crack in it.

You don't say what type of engineer you are, but do you have access to equipment to do some form of magnetic particle inspection of the cylinder? Or the equipment to do some sort of penetrant testing?

 

[cowboy4evr]

sounds to me like tired brass , too many reloads . 7.2 grs of Unique is beyond modern load data , it certainly isn't an over dose , like a double charge . I routinely shoot pretty stout 44 spl loads using starline and no problems , 7.5 Unique (Skeeter Skelton load ) .

 

[apollo99]

Buy some new brass, number the cylinders, shoot your prescribed loads, check for ruptured cases. That's really the only way of telling which chambers if any are defective, and the new brass if it ruptures in various cylinders could indicate an over charge.I use a sharpie on stainless cylinders, and blue painters tape on my blue cylinders. I mostly used to mark cylinders to see which one, or ones are more accurate in a particular revolver.

 

[Marcruger]

Hi HDWhit,

I appreciate your caution on the load data. That said, the load data you are referencing I believe is the standard pressure .44 Special. The Model 24-6 Classic can handle quite a bit more pressure than, say, an older Colt SAA.

Brian Pearce did a super article on the 24-6 in the April-May 2014 edition of Handloader. He consulted with S&W, and found out that the revolver is a thoroughly modern N-frame with the Endurance Package. Heat treat yoke, radiused stud package, lengthened bolt stop notches, etc. The frame, outside cylinder dimensions, and steel are the same as the Model 29, which is rated for around 36,000 psi (Model 29). Brian set a level of 25,000 psi max for his 24-6. The loading manual .44 Special loads for any gun are capped at 15,500psi max out of caution for older and weaker guns.

An example of a Unique load for the 15,500psi max that Brian recommended for older guns is a 250 grn lead bullet over 7.0 grains of Unique. This is not too far pressure-wise away from the 200 grain XTP over 7.2 grains of Unique (lead versus jacketed considered).

A load he listed for the 25,000psi max for the 24-6 is the same Hornady 200 XTP I use, over 9.2 grains of Unique. This is obviously way hotter than what I am shooting, though apparently it is safe for the 24-6, and is well under the 36,000psi the structure of the N-frame gun can presumably handle.

Trust me, I am not one to "hot rod" loads. In this case, I am shooting a "faster" load as I cannot get the revolver to sight in with a slower load or heavier bullet. I have the lowest rear blade and tallest front sight from S&W on the gun. I would love to shoot up some 240 grain LSWCs I have on hand, but I simply cannot get them to hit near point of aim. Even with the rear sight all the way down. With the 200 grain XTP over 7.2 grains Unique, it hits right on top of the front blade. The barrel is accurate, but leads with various hardness bullets, so I am shooting jacketed in hopes that some day it will smooth out.

Best wishes, Marc

 

[gwpercle]

I have had cases split down the side, in 38 special light target loads it would happen after 20-25 reloads. The higher the pressure, the sooner the failure, 357 magnum loaded Elmer Keith would go 3-5 .
Brass does wear out, the higer the pressure the fewer loadings you will get. Annealing helps extend case life. And yes the faulty brass case creeps in once in a while. Send them back to Starline if you think they are defective , they will take care of you.

Gary

 

[Vulcan Bob]

A few years ago I had just one new Starline .44 Special split on the first firing. The load was 8.0gr Power Pistol, 250gr Lyman #429421 with a Federal 150 primer. Oh no I thought, bad brass from Starline! Well as it turned out it was the only one out of that batch of 500. What happened, I don't know. But I've much worse from Winchester so I guess all manufacturers can have a problem now and again.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a junk batch of 44 Russian from Top Brass I bought about 8 or 9 years ago. About 1/3 split on first firing (light WW231 Cowboy load) My 500 new brass were down to 300 after the first firing and now I'm on the 3rd or 4th and lost 2 of 10 last Tuesday. It doesn't matter which gun, Repo N0. 3 Russians, Taurus, or a lever action. I'll be down to 100 very soon, Then I'll buy some Starline. They stand behind their product!

Ivan

 

[Qc Pistolero]

While I've used extensively products from Starline,I've never experienced such a mishap.But ''nopody being berfect''(or something like that!),it might happen that a couple of cases had a slight defect that caused what you've experienced.

Brass cases are drawn from small disks punched out of a sheet ;it then gets drawn in multiple operations to the finished product.
If the sheet of brass had a place where the material was a very few thousands of an inch thinner,the subsequent drawings will stretch the defect and make the brass even thinner by the time the case is completed;with the result that,being so thin at that specific place it'll simply let go(crack)at its first exposure to pressure.
Again,it might be something else but,from far away without seing the components involved,that's the first thing that comes to mind.
Qc

 

[MichiganScott]

Way back when I was in college I bought 100 new Remington .44mag cases. I loaded them with my usual load of WW296 under a 240gr Sierra bullet. About half had a split similar to what the OP described after the first loading. I called Sierra about the situation and they simply told me that bad brass happens.

Figuring it was a one time thing, I reloaded the brass and about half split on the second loading. I tossed the rest.

 

[BC38]

Hopefully it is just bad brass and not the same kind of problem I had with my 15-5 right after I bought it.

One cylinder had a "stretched" area inside. It started at the cylinder stop notch and ran forward for about 3/8"" - see the attached pictures.

Not sure whether it was due to a flaw in the metal or the previous owner accidentally shooting a super hot load that just almost split the cylinder. You could barely even see it on the outside, and only with a bright light at the right angle. You'd never notice it if you didn't already know it was there - though the previous owner knew about it and had marked it with a tiny little scratch on the outside of the cylinder.

You could also see the stretched spot on the inside when the light was shining into that chamber JUST right - but only IF you knew to look for it.....

 

[gman51]

I am using Starfire cases and I am on the second reloading of them. I had no problems with the first 500 I loaded. I am using 165 gr 44 spl coated bullets and 3.5 gr Clays powder.
I am going to keep watch for split cases now.

When I first got my LCR 357 I was shooting 38spl and the gun jammed. I found the bullet had come forward jamming the cylinder to the frame. Inspecting the case it had a slit down the side of the casing. Hasn't happened again but I do check my ammo for split cases now when loading the guns or reloading ammo.

 

[amazingflapjack]

pin gauge those charge holes as above.

 

[Bosquebass]

Hopefully it is just bad brass and not the same kind of problem I had with my 15-5 right after I bought it.

One cylinder had a "stretched" area inside. It started at the cylinder stop notch and ran forward for about 3/8"" - see the attached pictures.

Not sure whether it was due to a flaw in the metal or the previous owner accidentally shooting a super hot load that just almost split the cylinder. You could barely even see it on the outside, and only with a bright light at the right angle. You'd never notice it if you didn't already know it was there - though the previous owner knew about it and had marked it with a tiny little scratch on the outside of the cylinder.

You could also see the stretched spot on the inside when the light was shining into that chamber JUST right - but only IF you knew to look for it.....

Did you do anything to resolve this or are you shooting it as is?