So you have had issues with the powder measure hanging up with this particular powder? This, I suspect, is the root cause.
Squib Loads
- Thread starter skrazo
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So you have had issues with the powder measure hanging up with this particular powder? This, I suspect, is the root cause.
The same brass that shaves lead will result in a bullet that is loose and turns after seating? Or some pieces do one and some do the other? If it's mixed brass, I've noticed there are pretty clear differences in brass thickness. As an example, Remington revolver brass for me seems super thin. It sizes very easily, and has the least neck tension vs the other brass I have.
If the same piece of brass shaves lead and then leaves the bullet loose, perhaps it still has a bit of a crimp in the end and needs the mouth opened up more? I find the "M-style" neck expanders that Lyman, Redding, and I believe RCBS and Hornady use are much better for seating lead than the belling type die Lee uses.
As a former Lee equipment user, your powder disk is not returning completely to the fill position, you don't have the powder measure at least 50% full, and you may have significant variation in case length. My suggestion is that you check your powder measure for smooth operation and full cycling of the disk front to rear. My experience with Lee disk powder measures was that they functioned, had to be kept spotlessly clean, and there was no correlation between the list powder charge and the actual powder charge.
Military brass has the thickest walls and R-P have the thinnest. I have had 38 spl loads that the bullet would turn easily, but were accurate without any squibs.
Military brass has the thickest walls and R-P have the thinnest. I have had 38 spl loads that the bullet would turn easily, but were accurate without any squibs.
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What's the diameter of the bullets? Is there large variance from bullet to bullet?
I would guess that you are afraid of working the brass too much and that is causing you to not expand enough and not crimp enough. If properly expanded you should not be shaving lead unless some of the bullets are oversized. If properly crimped the bullets should not move after crimped. Heck, the bullets shouldn't be able to move after being seated unless the bullets are undersized.
I have .357 brass that has been loaded 20+ times and it still functions like normal.
I would guess that you are afraid of working the brass too much and that is causing you to not expand enough and not crimp enough. If properly expanded you should not be shaving lead unless some of the bullets are oversized. If properly crimped the bullets should not move after crimped. Heck, the bullets shouldn't be able to move after being seated unless the bullets are undersized.
I have .357 brass that has been loaded 20+ times and it still functions like normal.
Simple reason for a squib, and the only one I can think of, is your load is too light. Really light. I load .38Sp with a mid range load and shoot it in a Model 52. I load cases over and over until they split. I've accidentally loaded a split case or two not noticing until after they were loaded. I shot them anyway, usually in a revolver, and tossed them out afterwards. Never a squib from a bad case. Light or no load is the only cause.
Collo Rosso
Member
You mentioned pulling the rounds left and found proper powder charges so I'll assume the measure is working. The bullet rotating after seating caught my attention also. Case tension alone, as scooter123 said, should have you looking for pliers to turn a bullet. No case tension, no pressure. Either your bullet is undersized or your belling plug is way to deep.
The first time I switched from 44 special to 44 magnum I forgot all about the belling plug going deeper into the case. The first case I belled I knew what I did. A .430 bullet almost disappeared into the case!
The first time I switched from 44 special to 44 magnum I forgot all about the belling plug going deeper into the case. The first case I belled I knew what I did. A .430 bullet almost disappeared into the case!
Jboutfishn
Member
Never had "1" squib, I had 10. Brain fade! I had not charged a row of cases in the loading block.
Just sayin.
Just sayin.
ggibson511960
Member
Occam's Razor
The gun went bang and pushed the bullet part way down the chute, but not enough energy to clear. What's the most likely, and simplest explanation? If it happened to me I would assume no powder (simple operator reloading error) with other possibilities trailing a distant second, including component irregularity. Assembling ammunition with Lee equipment invites a host of goblins to vex your efforts unless you concentrate like a monk on a desert island. The lease imperfection in technique and something goes awry. All my Lee stuff has been given away to hapless former friends. A faulty primer would either fire (maybe with less accuracy) or not. Bad brass not yielding enough bullet pull would create inaccuracy, but an outright squib?? That would be a dangerous load recipe and yours was reasonable handbook stuff.
The gun went bang and pushed the bullet part way down the chute, but not enough energy to clear. What's the most likely, and simplest explanation? If it happened to me I would assume no powder (simple operator reloading error) with other possibilities trailing a distant second, including component irregularity. Assembling ammunition with Lee equipment invites a host of goblins to vex your efforts unless you concentrate like a monk on a desert island. The lease imperfection in technique and something goes awry. All my Lee stuff has been given away to hapless former friends. A faulty primer would either fire (maybe with less accuracy) or not. Bad brass not yielding enough bullet pull would create inaccuracy, but an outright squib?? That would be a dangerous load recipe and yours was reasonable handbook stuff.
Geo. T.
Member
Lee Disk!
I have one of those powder measures on a Lee 1000 Pro I got in a trade. That and their primer feed are the reasons that It's seldom used. It will make a popping sound when it short charges or fails to load at all. I loaded 500 357 magnum loads and then found this trate. I weighed all 500 and found 38 that were very light or no powder. I was juat lucky that I was loading a stiff charge of H-110 so that the scale pointed them out!
I have one of those powder measures on a Lee 1000 Pro I got in a trade. That and their primer feed are the reasons that It's seldom used. It will make a popping sound when it short charges or fails to load at all. I loaded 500 357 magnum loads and then found this trate. I weighed all 500 and found 38 that were very light or no powder. I was juat lucky that I was loading a stiff charge of H-110 so that the scale pointed them out!
I'm not familiar with Red Dot, but some bulky powders will "bridge" in the powder drop tube, and leave a case mostly empty, but the next case usually gets a "extra" charge. That's the reason for the "Stop and eyeball every single case in the loading block" before setting any bullets in. Brain fade happens to all of us, that's why we must develop good procedures, to catch our brain fades.
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Hope you find the problem..........
In a auto loader ball powder will flow a LOT better than any flake or extruded powder will.
One reason I like my single stage, which lets me inspect all cases with a powder charge dropped into them, in a loading tray and a good light source, over head.
You might try Bullseye powder if you have any or a fast Ball powder and see if the problem stops.
A loose fitting bullet will fire but it will probably not group with the other bullets due to loss of fps if at 25 yards or more.
With a tight die, your bullets should be all loose or all tight, unless you have poor bullet dia. quality.
I will put money on either powder "Bridging" or primer hole obstruction as the culprit.
Primer hole problems are a sign of improper loading steps taken. Correct this, before you go to priming the case.
In a auto loader ball powder will flow a LOT better than any flake or extruded powder will.
One reason I like my single stage, which lets me inspect all cases with a powder charge dropped into them, in a loading tray and a good light source, over head.
You might try Bullseye powder if you have any or a fast Ball powder and see if the problem stops.
A loose fitting bullet will fire but it will probably not group with the other bullets due to loss of fps if at 25 yards or more.
With a tight die, your bullets should be all loose or all tight, unless you have poor bullet dia. quality.
I will put money on either powder "Bridging" or primer hole obstruction as the culprit.
Primer hole problems are a sign of improper loading steps taken. Correct this, before you go to priming the case.
I have seen squib loads twice from others.38 Specials. You could see some bullets in the air and they fell to the ground in a few yards. In all instances of blooper or squib loads the cause was LOOSE bullets in the case mouth. You could push the bullet deeper with finger pressure. In both cases the combo .357 Mag/38 Special sizing die would not size the brass down enough to grip the bullet tightly. Some 38 brass especially Remington has too thin walls. If your expander die is doing nothing then you may have problems with loose bullet tension. Could also be too small bullet diameter. The long .38 case with either small charges or slow powders, the primer will start the bullet moving forward before the powder develops full pressure. One tip I learned from another reloader is that to use a 9MM sizing die which is only a couple thousandths smaller. Size with your .38 die, then run all cases into the 9MM die to just where the bullet would stop. Expand normally and you'll have good neck tension. Don't like combo dies like .357/38 or 40 S&W/10MM as you can have neck tension issues with thin brass. Another thing to try would be raise the barrel to settle all powder next to the primer and not the bullet. I don't like that idea though and another fix is necessary. A bullet crimp will not fix a loose bullet in the case mouth.
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one eye joe
US Veteran
I AGREE. I WILL BE SURPRISED IF YOUR PROBLEM IS TRACEABLE TO YOUR BRASS. ANY PROBLEM THAT I HAVE HAD WITH SQUIBS, THROUGH DECADES OF SHOOTING RELOADS (NONE MY OWN---LOADED BY MY LGS) HAS BEEN DUE TO AN ERROR IN THE LOADING OF POWDER. THE CARTRIDGES ALWAYS LOOK BEAUTIFUL…...
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Johnrh
Member
The only round I have problems with squibs is 38 specials. For some reason I don't get powder in them. Have no idea why. If it was hung up in the 550b powder funnel I would get the next a double load. Never have those. I now watch every case to make sure there is powder in them. I also load for 380 45 223 and 30-06 and never had a squib. It's like understanding quantum physics.
Please pay more attention in every step of the reloading process.
Hate to loose good people that way.
Try scooping and weighing to eliminate that variable.
Refrain from rapid fire and make sure there is a hole in the target after each shot.
There is a distinct sound and feeling in your hands when you are squibing.
That means pay attention when shooting each round.
My son was told that the most dangerous place with firearms is at the range.
I had one squib in my loading years.
I use a flashlight to check each powdered case.
One is too many.
Stay safe and those around you as well.
I don't consider any aspect related to firearms a hobby..... it's a way of life.
Hate to loose good people that way.
Try scooping and weighing to eliminate that variable.
Refrain from rapid fire and make sure there is a hole in the target after each shot.
There is a distinct sound and feeling in your hands when you are squibing.
That means pay attention when shooting each round.
My son was told that the most dangerous place with firearms is at the range.
I had one squib in my loading years.
I use a flashlight to check each powdered case.
One is too many.
Stay safe and those around you as well.
I don't consider any aspect related to firearms a hobby..... it's a way of life.
I noticed my Lee adjustable disc measure making a popping noise and then began finding uncharged cases as well. One of the problems I have while reloading is getting enough light on the cases to see the charge. I used the following: Flexible LED Light-Assorted Colors -Teal, Raspberry, Purple | Jo-Ann
I don't recommend going into JoAnn's Fabrics without your wife as you will get swamped by all the lady employees who "know" you're in the wrong place and you must leave as soon as possible. I like going in there just to see them get jumpy! Also, just noticed this light was on sale for half off.
Anyway, this solved my problem with my Lee. Now I can see into every case as I charge them.
fredj338
Member
A squib is just that, a round that doesn't fire. If you are getting powder ignition, & it is underpowered, not really a squib. If you are using really old brass & they are splitting, then you may not have enough neck tension to hold the bullet & give good ignition, but RD is really fast & that shouldn't be an issue in a 1 1/2" bbl. I would suspect your powder drop & there is not powder in the rounds that don't clear the bbl. The other thought mentioned is a blocked primer flash hole. IF you tumble brass with the primer out, stop doing that or inspect each case after tumbling.
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GreyOwl
Member
Almost all the definitions I've found state the following:
TOP DEFINITION
Squib load
A defective round of ammunition that lacks sufficient power to force the projectile out of the barrel of a firearm.
Indicators of a squib load may include: little to no recoil, gasses directed back toward the shooter, or failure to cycle another round.
If you experience a squib load, point your firearm in a safe direction, and ensure that it is unloaded. Use a cleaning rod to push the projectile out of the barrel.
Never attempt to fire another round to force the stuck projectile out. This will create pressures that your firearm is not designed to tolerate, and will damage your firearm, and likely result in injury or death.
TOP DEFINITION
Squib load
A defective round of ammunition that lacks sufficient power to force the projectile out of the barrel of a firearm.
Indicators of a squib load may include: little to no recoil, gasses directed back toward the shooter, or failure to cycle another round.
If you experience a squib load, point your firearm in a safe direction, and ensure that it is unloaded. Use a cleaning rod to push the projectile out of the barrel.
Never attempt to fire another round to force the stuck projectile out. This will create pressures that your firearm is not designed to tolerate, and will damage your firearm, and likely result in injury or death.
subvet69
Member
I too experienced squib loads in .38s. I loaded about 300 and a few hundred 9mm with the same primers. The 9mm all fired, about 8 .38's did not. The 1000 primers were all discolored and I blame them. The 9s pack the powder more than the 38s so I had no problem with them. I sent some reloads off to Remington (their primers) over a month ago and haven't heard back yet, if I will at all. I unloaded the 200+ rounds and all had powder in them. The squib loads had unburned powder on the bullet and case. Powder was Bullseye. I have fired more than 3000 rounds of .38 with their primers and Bullseye powder and never had a squib before. New box of primers and have had no problems.
I have ammo cans full of primers and powder. Haven't had to buy
any since the big price jumps. I have powder sealed in unopened
cans that are at least 20 years old. All these are stored in GI ammo cans. I load hundreds of 38 WCs. My load 141gr cast WC
P5066 at 4gr. I drop charges in loading blocks of 50, randomly
check and before seating bullets use flashlight across tops to
look for possible over/under charge. I've had very few squibs
and the ones I did have were from punk primers. The flashlight
will let you spot problems with charge very easy. The storage of
primers and powder can be a major factor in producing squibs.
Best kept airtight at constant temperature. I'm still using powders that have been obsolete for years.
any since the big price jumps. I have powder sealed in unopened
cans that are at least 20 years old. All these are stored in GI ammo cans. I load hundreds of 38 WCs. My load 141gr cast WC
P5066 at 4gr. I drop charges in loading blocks of 50, randomly
check and before seating bullets use flashlight across tops to
look for possible over/under charge. I've had very few squibs
and the ones I did have were from punk primers. The flashlight
will let you spot problems with charge very easy. The storage of
primers and powder can be a major factor in producing squibs.
Best kept airtight at constant temperature. I'm still using powders that have been obsolete for years.
