sticky S&W 22 revolvers -the gun, the ammo, me???

[cmansguns]

I've read the recent posts about timing being off and how to test, how to confirm, and the posts about you folks who have reamed the charge holes in the cylinder.

So.......here's my trouble. K22 Masterpieces work great, all the time. Once fired cases (CCI Standard Velocity, 40 gr. LRN) slip right back in the cylinder nice and flush with the recess as supposed to. This is both the 1947 and the 1948.

On the other hand, my 1972 Model 17-3, and the 1975 Model 34-1 simply will not accept these exact same cases (see pics below). In addition the 34-1 cannot go through a full cylinder (6 rounds) without trouble in double action. The trigger just meets heavy resistance like a rim is dragging. I don't see any drag marks on recoil shield or case rim.

Timing is correct with the test method you folks use, no cylinder end shake, no side to side play, bolt locks up tight before hammer falls, but still trouble with the 34-1.

The fired cases measure right at 0.2260" with my digital calipers, backed up by my Starret 0-1" Mic. Only one of the fired cases mic'd 0.2263 at the lip where the bullet was. This seems to be all good per SAAMI specs for 22LR Sporting chart.

The same SAAMI chart shows the chamber to be 0.227" and shows 0.2307 at rim end indicating a slight taper over the 0.818 case length.

Do I understand you folks correctly in that you just run a 0.278" reamer (straight flutes I presume) down the charge holes from rim recess to face? How do you "center the reamer" if indeed there is a taper?

When my guns are firing on paper (just off hand..no rest) they all are equally accurate from the K22's to the 34-1, it's just that pesky sometimes round hangup in DA on the 34-1 and the tight (real tight) extraction on both the 17-3 and the 34-1.

Could it be something else maybe internal? Carry up seems normal in all, but there may be gunk in the 34-1 as I haven't had the sideplate off.

Does powder and crud accumulate in the recess area of the rim? I don't see any issue but my eyes can be deceiving me for sure. I sthere an end mill that fits the recess diameter exactly (0.288") or would that be to drastic to remove any buildup?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I bought the 34-1 for my wife to replace "Her" gun (1972 Model 34-1) that I sold last year without realizing (or asking) "Do you still like that 22 wheel gun". Needless to say it is now really frustrating to have the gun hang up the way it does so she doesn't want to shoot it at all until "S&W expert, all knowledgeable, best there ever was around guns, hubby gets it straightened out or replaced" By the way...the "expert" mentioned above was her Dad..until he passed...now I guess it's me.

Help me out here guys and gals...if you can. Comments appreciated as well. Google is NOT my friend in this case..I looked...too many "experts" just like me all over you tube and some of them evidently were born with hammers in hand. When I was in heavy construction we called these guys Holeschumechanikshers" or "wooden shoe mechanics".

 

[Protocall_Design]

First things to check are for debris under the extractor (clean with regular or metal bristle toothbrush),endshake, and cylinder rubbing the back of the barrel. As for the reamer, use a standard .22 LR chamber reamer for revolver chambers, rather than a straight flute chucking reamer. The chamber reamer is self centering.

 

[Hondo44]

Protocall Design covered it well.

The only additional suggestions I can make are to really check the chamber recesses for crud and hone the chambers before spending money on a chamber reamer.

Be sure the chamber recesses at the mouth of the chambers are clean. Any crud in them gets pounded flat every time the cartridges are fired until the crud is not evident. A toothpick works well to clean them. An end mill is overkill. This is another common cause for binding cylinders. The hammer does not offer enough leverage to overcome a binding cyl.


S&W chambers are seldom truly under sized, but they are tapered for accuracy. When you use a reamer, it's a straight reamer and you remove the taper.

But the fact is, many chambers come from the factory with less than satisfactory chamber finishes.

Look in your chambers with good light and a 5X glass. You'll see the factory machining marks, those can be your problem. They not only grip the sides of your cases like friction tape, they collect fouling like a magnet.

A simple inspection for burrs or dings in the chamber mouth and recesses is an excellent first thing to do. Quite often one burr in one chamber make all six chambers hard to extract. Polish out any that you find.

Then I polish all chambers gently. The simplest for me is 800 to 1000 grit paper wrapped around a wood dowel (like a Chinese food chopstick) with a slit cut in the end, just slightly smaller than the chamber diameter. Mount in a Dremel tool or small power drill and spin in the chamber. It only takes a couple of seconds per chamber.

You can even go up to 2000 grit, the chambers will look like mirrors!!

One caution is to stay out of the chamber throats, you don't want to affect the throat area at the front of the chambers.

Of course .22s chambers are simplest to do because they don't have actual chambers, they have charge holes, no shoulders, (except .22 Magnum chambers, they have shoulders).

The secret to success is to keep the dowel moving in and out of the chamber so you keep the chamber walls straight. If you don't move the dowel or any polishing device for that matter, in and out, you risk creating waves or wallows in the chamber walls and cases will stick even worse.

Good luck and let us know how it comes out,

 

[H Richard]

I'm sure you have read at least some of the many many posts about S&W 22's stick chambers and ejection problems. It is historical that S&W have had tight chambers for many years. One assumption is that they use a "match" chamber size, another is they don't polish enough. Whatever the reason, a lot of revolvers over the years, going back to the K22 Outdoorsman have had sticky ejection. I have reamed 8 or 9 revolvers, all S&W, and resolved the issue on all of them.

Just use a Manson "finishing" revolver chamber reamer. Use plenty of cutting oil, and never turn the reamer backward. Be sure and do it by hand not in a drill press, (It can get away form you.). Remove and clean the reamer frequently. Do not cut into the case head recess.

 

[cmansguns]

Thanks for the information and tips

Thank you gentlemen for the above instructions, tips and tool advice.

I've gathered my brass bristle toothbrush, several toothpicks, my best LED work light, some small 3/16" wooden dowel rods (I use at the range to help 22 extraction), and rags and solvent.

Upon inspection with magnifying glass I can now see accumulated crud both in the cylinder recess and under the star. I usually clean under the start with my nylon bristle toothbrush but evidently it just wasn't stiff enough to get that old stuff.

I probably will "polish" the charge holes with wood dowel and some fine sandpaper like mentioned by you folks before thinking about a reamer. I did see a finish chamber reamer at Brownells, but it is $60 shipped so I'll see what polishing does first.

The $60 is not at all a bad investment if it solves the sticky extraction of the 17-3 and the 34-1 and the more I know now...I'm guessing that some prior owner of both my K22 Masterpieces probably had already been there, done that.

Again, thanks for the help and knowledge. I'll post up results when I get everything working right and the wife hits the range for final Q.C. inspection.

 

[Marylander]

If or when you decide to use a finish reamer, no need to buy one. I have a finish reamer I will loan to you. I will ship Priority small box, free.
When you are done, send it back Priority small box, you pay postage.
Today's mailing price is $9.95 (last time I checked). Just drop me a PM with your mailing address. I'm in Maryland.
Ray