Stopping Power Study

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One problem I've always had with these statistics is that they never use equal sample sizes, ergo the results are always at least a bit skewed.
That criticism aside, I'm sure that the accuracy of it all is just fine, as I'm well aware of thd fact that people don't like to be shot, and the data reflects that fact.

Personally, I have no interest in seeking the illusive perfect Self-Defense handgun cartridge, nor even the "optimal" Self-Defense cartridge, especially considering that there is an unavoidable amount of confirmation bias in every single article I've ever read on the subject, with the end result almost always indicating that (surprise, surprise) whatever the author carries is best.

As a result, I've adopted the generalist ideology that one ought to carry the most powerful handgun they can manage. Folks may feel free to serve as walking illustrations of confirmation bias in action by attempting to inform me that I'm making a huge mistake because according to statistics, testing with nondisclosed methods, theory-craft, appeals to authority, and a mountain of anecdotal evidence confirms that whatever they carry, have been carrying for years, and is conveniently comfortable to shoot is the best, has always been the best, and will forever be the best, but it's my prerogative.

Currently I carry a SW40VE. Am I under any illusion that it is the best handgun for Self-Defense chambered in the ultimate Self-Defense cartridge? Heck no, it's a last-gen variant of a value-priced pistol which I bought mostly by complete chance because I happened upon it at my LGS for $199 LNIB and I was looking for a lightweight double-stack semiautomatic pistol chambered in a service-grade cartridge for Winter carry at the time anyway. However, it fits my hand well, carries extremely well, and I feel confident with it, so I'll stick with it for the time being until I find something better that I can afford.
 
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At least the fact that a LOT of the 9mm ammo was FMJ,
helped shed some light on why the 9mm was lower in the report than a lot of the other calibers.

The Winchester .38 Special "Silver Tip" load was thought to be a good load, until the Florida shoot out.

The only problem with a .357 or larger load, is that the weapons are usually a lot heavier and a pain to carry around all day........
and don't usually fit in your pants pocket !!
 
According to most statistics, the .357 Magnum 145 grain Silvertip should be an excellent manstopper with a very high “one shot stop” rating.

Tell that to Dick Blackburn after he absorbed an entire cylinder full back in 1993 when he got in a shootout with Trooper Mark Coates.

Blackburn shot Trooper Coates once with a pathetic NAA .22 revolver. Coates responded by shooting Blackburn 6 times with his “manstopper” Ruger Servicr Six .357 Magnum.

Guess who died that night, and who is still living today? Hint: sadly not the trooper, believe it or not.

SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. HANDGUN POWER IS VIRTUALLY IRRELEVANT.

I carry a 9x18 Makarov not because it is the most powerful or highest capacity gun around, not by far. I carry it because I can absolutely hit better with it than anything I own and recoil is moderate for good follow ups.
 
It's a good study, as far as they go, and it's been discussed a number of times here. We're never going to get any kind of definitive answer simply because there are too many variables to control for. But I think it is a relatively good assessment.

One of the more interesting observations Ellifritz made was that the reason for bigger cartridges requiring slightly fewer rounds to stop someone may be due to slower shot-to-shot recovery and not power. Within the time it takes for someone to be stopped, more rounds of 9mm can be fired than, say, .40S&W or .45ACP. Again, not a perfect correlation due to the variables issue I mentioned, but interesting nonetheless.

Generally speaking, I still say the best approach for selecting tools is to pick a good HP, in a caliber and platform you like, that functions reliably, that you can shoot well, and that you will actually have if the need should ever arise. While 9mm vs. 40 vs. .45, [insert name of JHP] vs [insert name of another JHP], SA vs DA vs striker, full-size vs compact, etc., can be fun and interesting (sometimes!), in the grand scheme of things it's not as important as being able to get rounds on target.

Just my opinion.
 
POWER is absolutely important

In any of the shoot outs where I talked to those involved, NEVER did someone tell me they would have been perfectly satisfied with a less powerful cartridge

I am fully confident that had I been carrying a 9MM or 40S&W during my shootout you would not be hearing from me today

The problem with most of these studies/scenarios is that they seldom take into account how much energy the projectile loses when it has to go through something BEFORE impacting it's final target
 
Personally, I like bigger bullets. Why? Because while it is undoubtedly true that a critical hit with a .380 ACP is equally effective as a critical hit with a .45 ACP, not every hit is going to absolutely be a critical hit. Folks focus too much on immediate incapacitation, regardless of the fact that it isn't assured unless your shot placement is absolutely perfect, and regardless of how well you may be able to hit stationery or otherwise predictably moving targets at fixed distances in the relaxed environment of your shooting range, that doesn't mean that you'll be able to hit with the same precision when facing a moving target who shoots back, not to mention the very real prospect of your own potential demise.

Once again operating under a simple concept, bigger, deeper holes equals faster blood loss, meaning higher potential for incapacitation over time, not to mention a higher probability of psychological stops considering that a more ghastly wound which is pumping blood out more quickly might just be able to convince the attacker that the fight isn't worth continuing.
Speaking of which, firearms chambered in bigger, more powerful cartridges tend to be more intimidating in a gunfight, as obviously a tiny gun that makes more of a load pop with a tiny spark coming out the muzzle just isn't going to leave as much of an impression as a big gun that makes a loud bang or boom followed by an echoing crack with a bright flash or fireball coming out the muzzle.

Yeah, yeah, I know you're not supposed to rely on such things, and I don't, but a potential advantage is a potential advantage, and I'll gladly take any additional chance of stopping a fight. So even if a .357, .40, or .45 isn't any better at immediately incapacitating someone and I can't hit stationery targets at fixed distances in a relaxed environment quite as quickly with them, I'd still prefer to carry one because to me, the possibility of surviving the fight because the larger diameter/deeper wound caused the attacker to bleed out faster, or decide to stop attacking me because the bullet wounds look nastier, are bleeding worse, or he was simply intimidated/disoriented by the louder bang/brighter muzzle flash, then I'm not complaining.

As folks have said, there are many variables in gunfights, so I figure, why not have as many potential variables which may work in my favor at my disposal?
 
I am not at all sure that "stopping power" is a valid concept with any reasonable handgun cartridge. Too many variables. Some people will wimp out with a minor GSW. Some people will keep on shooting after they are for all practical purposes dead. Good hits with a reasonable caliber are IMHO the most reliable fight stopper.
 
God help me i pray to never know . i must be a hard thing to deal with . kenny

Personally, I can't see myself being the least bit bothered considering that I would obviously do everything in my power to avoid doing so in the first place, ergo in the event in which I had to shoot someone in self-defense, I'm not going to blame myself considering the guy might as well have shot himself considering that I really had no choice in the matter.

Furthermore, I can't see myself feeling all that bad about it considering the most likely scenario in which I'm forced to shoot someone in self-defense would obviously involve me shooting a criminal scumbag intent on doing me harm with absolutely no consideration whatsoever in regards to myself, my family, or any other such consequences of harming me, so heck if I'm going to shed a tear if I end up killing some violent sociopath whose life was essentially devoid of any value, and whose entire existence was completely detrimental to society.
But then again, I've lived a rather rough life with a long history of getting screwed over one way or another by selfish individuals, ergo I'm obviously more prone to anger towards such individuals and less concerned for their well-being.

Granted, I've never actually had to shoot anyone and would prefer not to, ergo I cannot predict how I may feel in the aftermath of a self-defense shooting.
 
According to most statistics, the .357 Magnum 145 grain Silvertip should be an excellent manstopper with a very high “one shot stop” rating.

Tell that to Dick Blackburn after he absorbed an entire cylinder full back in 1993 when he got in a shootout with Trooper Mark Coates.

Blackburn shot Trooper Coates once with a pathetic NAA .22 revolver. Coates responded by shooting Blackburn 6 times with his “manstopper” Ruger Servicr Six .357 Magnum.

Guess who died that night, and who is still living today? Hint: sadly not the trooper, believe it or not.

SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. HANDGUN POWER IS VIRTUALLY IRRELEVANT.

I carry a 9x18 Makarov not because it is the most powerful or highest capacity gun around, not by far. I carry it because I can absolutely hit better with it than anything I own and recoil is moderate for good follow ups.

The troopers own department stated he was carrying .38 Special +P. I don’t know why you keep spreading this misinformation.

By the way, according the Ellifritz the best stopper is the .32 ACP.
 

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According to most statistics, the .357 Magnum 145 grain Silvertip should be an excellent manstopper with a very high “one shot stop” rating.

Tell that to Dick Blackburn after he absorbed an entire cylinder full back in 1993 when he got in a shootout with Trooper Mark Coates.

Blackburn shot Trooper Coates once with a pathetic NAA .22 revolver. Coates responded by shooting Blackburn 6 times with his “manstopper” Ruger Servicr Six .357 Magnum.

Guess who died that night, and who is still living today? Hint: sadly not the trooper, believe it or not.

SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. HANDGUN POWER IS VIRTUALLY IRRELEVANT.

I carry a 9x18 Makarov not because it is the most powerful or highest capacity gun around, not by far. I carry it because I can absolutely hit better with it than anything I own and recoil is moderate for good follow ups.
South Carolina Highway Patrol had .357 Mag revolvers loaded with 38 +P rounds at the time of that shooting. 125 grain I believe .
 
Thanks for the great info. And.....

Likely many of you have seen this,for those who haven't some interesting data.
Primary takeaway: regardless of caliber, shooting someone often changes their behavior.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association

...I just glanced quicky for now, but I noticed in other data I've read it all shows something interesting. The 9mm seems to have a 'slump' between the mouse calibers and the 'accepted' carry pistols. I only have one theory and that's the type of ammunition. I'll bet that most shootings with 9mm are done with FMJ ammo. Does that make any sense?:confused:
 

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