Storing powder in the house

[jgh4445]

The house I live in is jointly owned between me and my sister. Lately she is concerned that the powder I reload with will:

# one BLOW UP her house and

#2 somehow, in the event of a fire, cause the insurance company to refuse payment because I had gunpowder in it.

I pretty much convinced her that the blowing up part isn't an issue since the powder bottle isn't likely to explode as it melts. The insurance question is one I have never considered. What do you all think? Ever heard of such?

 

[Engineer1911]

This house is built with heart of pine framing. You cannot drive a 16 penny nail into a rafter -- I tried. Powder, primers, ammo ain't an issue in this house. If the framing starts to burn, the GI ammo cans will melt.

My insurance man wants premiums and doesn't care about anything else. Next time you have a trash burn, throw an old polyester pillow on the fire -- just don't get too close. You will have a spectacular fire ball. Now how many pillows and how much powder do you have? OK, the powder is fine, but you only need two pillows.

 

[mtgianni]

The nitrocellulose in powder is the same stuff that is in a comb, just formatted differently.

 

[Frank46]

And old deteriorated powder make a great lawn fertillizer due to it's nitrogen content. Had a can of 4320 go bad and sprinkled it on a lawn. Frank

 

[fyimo]

And old deteriorated powder make a great lawn fertillizer due to it's nitrogen content. Had a can of 4320 go bad and sprinkled it on a lawn. Frank

Funny when I moved from Colorado to Arkansas I took all of my Gun Powder cans that we just partially filled and dumped on my grass. The next owner probably wondered why there were bright green spots in his grass.

 

[Titegroups]

You gotto figure just about everybody store gas cans in their garage for mowers, etc. Not to mention gas tanks in vehicles.

 

[davekp]

You gotto figure just about everybody store gas cans in their garage for mowers, etc. Not to mention gas tanks in vehicles.

And aerosol cans!

 

[Wee Hooker]

I would check local and state codes for powder storage. If your within code I'm not sure an insurance Co could deny payment. Around here, powder is supposed to be stored in a metal container and limited to X pounds. In the event of a fire that ignites your stash, the quantity you actually stored would be hard to prove. ( i.e It's largely up to what you tell them). The metal container cant be faked.

 

[Bart45]

In "The Good Old Days" the general store would keep their powder (black) in a wooden barrel and dip it out to order. Same place you would buy your Colt Single Action or S&W.

 

[blujax01]

Smokeless gun powder is not explosive - it is combustible.

You may want to read the guidelines enumerated here:
http://www.saami.org/specifications.../download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf

After I read it, I considered an old refrigerator to be just the thing. It is insulated, and the magnetic door seal must open with no more pressure than can be exerted by a small child, so the "weak wall" thing to relieve pressure is covered.

I wonder what response you would get if you were to call some insurance companies, "looking for a rate" and explained you had powder stored in accordance with NFPA Recommendations?

This is my opinion and I am not an expert. Do what you think is right.

 

[ibewbull]

My father in -laws house burnt about 6 years ago.
The muzzle loading 50 and Pyrodex above the living room window was in a display case. The plexi-glass melted and smoke damaged the gun. The Pyrodex canister melted also. It did not burst into flames. The ammunition in metal 30 cal cans popped the bullets and shot out of some of the 12 ga. and .300 Savage rounds and the plastic shells deformed. None of this burned or exploded.
Like in a previous post the pillow is highly flammable as would be paint, hair spray , bug spray and many other house hold items. Cheap particle board furniture is really bad. All the glue really makes it burn hot.
So as for anything other than actual black powder I would not be concerned.

 

[mkk41]

My step-mother used to rant about having powder in the basement and how a few pounds was gonna cause the house to burn to the ground and kill everyone in case of fire.

Yet somehow she was not concerned about the 250gal oil tank in the basement!

 

[old&slow]

At one time the wife was concerned about powder in the house.
Out in the garage on the concrete floor, I took a piece of newspaper, poured a small amount of a really slow burning rifle powder on it, and set the edge of the newspaper on fire. And stood back.

She was all concerned. But I told just to watch. I think the newspaper burned faster than the powder. She said , "Is that all it does ?". Yep, and I told her the 5 gallon gas can in the garage was more dangerous than the powder.

She never questioned or worried about the powder again.

Don't do this with Black Powder or a really fast burning pistol powder. I use the powder out of an old 8mm military cartridge.

I've heard some places have limits on the amount of powder /primers you can store at you house.

 

[AveragEd]

As I recall (my memory was the second thing to go and I can't remember what the first thing was), there is a law of some kind, state or federal, limiting the amount of powder that can be stored in an occupied structure (it may even state "residence") to 25 pounds or thereabouts. Larger quantities must be stored in a remote building 150 yards(?) from the nearest occupied structure.

Having said that, I will admit to having well in excess of that amount of powder in my office/gun room in our condo. In fact, between powder, primers and loaded ammo, my room would likely be considered at least a HazMat area if not the headquarters of a terrorist cell. But I'm not alone in that department, I'm sure.

A lot of the combustibility comparisons that have been drawn are true but you know insurance companies - I can hear them now, denying a fire claim involving gunpowder because all those other things are "normal household items."

Ed

 

[scooter123]

Smokeless gun powder is not explosive - it is combustible.

You may want to read the guidelines enumerated here:
http://www.saami.org/specifications.../download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf

After I read it, I considered an old refrigerator to be just the thing. It is insulated, and the magnetic door seal must open with no more pressure than can be exerted by a small child, so the "weak wall" thing to relieve pressure is covered.

I wonder what response you would get if you were to call some insurance companies, "looking for a rate" and explained you had powder stored in accordance with NFPA Recommendations?

This is my opinion and I am not an expert. Do what you think is right.

Bingo. My house happened to come with an unused fridge in the basement and it's now my powder "safe". The house also came with a LOT of small cans of paints stored on home made shelving in the rafters that I didn't notice until after I moved in. If you have ever had to dispose of old paint you'll know what a PITA that can be. Talk to any fire department and they'll also tell you that it's NOT good in a fire. Odds are a well informed fire department will be more concerned about any old paint lying around than some smokeless powder in an old fridge.

 

[Twoboxer]

Got a little nervous hearing about powder needing to be stored in metal cans, or in a refrigerator.

Smokeless Powder doesn't explode - unless it is confined and ignited. The original containers - and ANY storage device - must allow gas to escape BEFORE it reaches explosive pressures.

While it's possible for a metal can or refrigerator to be safe - if they will vent/blow open easily - they are likely to be far less safe than the original powder container and a wooden box.

 

[rwsmith]

When powder came in....

When powder came in metal cans with screw lids there was danger of bursting due to pressure. I think almost every powder sold nowadays is in a plastic bottle that will melt down.

And I have seen some regulations on quantities of powder stored in the same room but it was such a large number that even if I had all the powder I wanted, the figure would not be exceeded.

 

[Neumann]

The nitrocellulose in powder is the same stuff that is in a comb, just formatted differently.

It has been close to 80 years since combs were made of nitrocellulose and bakelite (phenolic resin) took over. Now they're made from nylon , acrylic, or some other polymer.

 

[Twoboxer]

. . . And I have seen some regulations on quantities of powder stored in the same room but it was such a large number that even if I had all the powder I wanted, the figure would not be exceeded.

For most of us, it may not really be a lot lol . . .

The national fire code - which may also be your local fire code - sets a 25lb "limit" for ad hoc storage in a private residence, and a 50lb limit if stored in a wood container with a nominal thickness of 1".

Note: WOOD container

 

[SMSgt]

You sister's can of hair spray is more explosive than your gun powder. Store it in a vented container and you'll be fine.