Stovepiping problems.

[supramatt]

Hey all. I'm brand new to the forum here and this is my first post. As such I hope I'm not about to ask something that's been asked a bunch of times, and hopefully I don't make myself sound like an idiot.

Anyways, I recently purchased my second handgun. As you may have guessed, given the forum, it is a Sigma. SW9VE to be exact. I bought the firearm used from a local Gander Mountain.

I had the opportunity to take it out to the range last week for the first time and I wasn't overly excited with the results. First and foremost, I found it to be decently accurate, and the trigger does not bother me in the slightest. However the continuous combination of jams and stovepipes drove me crazy. I even allowed a couple of my friends to try, and they came across the same problems.

I immediately went back to Gander and spoke to their gunsmith and he said that he believed the cause of my woes was in fact limp wristing as opposed to anything mechanical on the firearm.

Now I'm not exactly experienced when it comes to handguns, and I intend to head back out to the range ASAP to try to eliminate the problem. However I was reading a few opinions online that seem to think that limp wristing is a problem that's been blown out of proportion, and that stovepiping is more related to weak extractor springs or otherwise damaged parts.

Also since it may be important, I have never had any limp wristing issues with any of the other handguns I have fired. However these other handguns have been unanimously 45 caliber and larger frames. It occurs to me however, that the sigma, being a polymer frame, recoil operated, 9mm would be about the most susceptible to limp wristing of everything I have fired.

So my question is, I'm sure the sigma has found its way into plenty of novices hands, being a relatively inexpensive firearm, have any of you had any problems with limp wristing causing failures? Any one out there with a proven reliable example, can you cause these type of issues by intentionally limp wristing? For those with more technical knowledge, do you think my problem is limp wristing or should I look into trying to replace some of the ejection related parts? Any way I can test to see if parts are overly worn out?

Wow I wrote a novel. Either way if any one can shed any light or help me out it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Backon4]

95% of the time jams and stove piping are the shooter. Don't take it personally, my brother (who works out every day and benches 2x his body weight) has problems with limp wristing. It is really a matter of getting used to the recoil. It can be overcome. If however it is something "everyone" has a problem with, then I would call S&W and send it in. Try and find some more experienced shooters to give it a whirl and see if they are having the same problem.

 

[Pisgah]

Not saying this is your problem, mind you, but some experienced shooters seem more prone to limrwristing that novices. Why? Well, my speculation is that the experienced shooter has become very used to his guns and has adopted a rather relaxed, even loose, hold. A light semiauto in any chambering that generates significant recoil really should be held with something akin to a "death grip". Try it, and see -- if you still have problems, it's time to start looking at the gun.

 

[delta1679]

I purchased my SW40VE a few months back and it's the first gun I have ever owned. As a prime example of Pisgah's comment, I initially held on to that thing very tightly and didn't encounter any issues. Although I have loosened up a little bit after nearly 500 rounds through it, I still keep a fairly tight hold on that Sigma.

 

[HPHooked]

I used my 9VE for my CCW class qualification without any problems. The instructor, a very good shot with a pistol, tried my Sigma. It stovepiped on him the first round. After clearing the jam, I recommeded he tighten his grip a little. He fired the other 14 rounds from it without a catch. Every pistol has it's quirks and a loose grip on the Sigma will cause it to malfunction. A firm grip is required but necessarily a "death grip".

 

[OKFC05]

No, that's not normal for a Sigma.

I'd carefully clean and lubricate it. Be sure to clean the magazines! Take them apart, clean, wipe DRY and reassemble.

When you have a malfunction, mark the mag so you know which it was. If it turns out to be only one mag doing it, guess what? Bad mag.

If the gun jams with all mags when clean, being shot with commercial ammo, it is defective. Call S&W.

 

[Big Foot]

95% of the time jams and stove piping are the shooter.

What???? Where do you get this idea from?

 

[Backon4]

My ccp class. It is in our handbook.

 

[jppezz23]

I was using some reloads and had stovepiping problem every so often.I thought it was the magazine but after changing to fedral ammo no more stovepiping.I checked all 6 magazines for my 40ve no problems with factory ammo.

 

[ET.]

Never had a jam with my 40ve and I hold it so tight I think I could squeeze the bullets out of the barrel without even having to pull the trigger!!!!

 

[mgo]

it is a Sigma. SW9VE to be exact. I bought the firearm used from a local Gander Mountain.

I was reading a few opinions online that seem to think that limp wristing is a problem that's been blown out of proportion, and that stovepiping is more related to weak extractor springs or otherwise damaged parts.

Also since it may be important, I have never had any limp wristing issues with any of the other handguns I have fired.

Many members will likely disagree with my opinion, but "limp wrist" is a myth. No firearm should fail to function, regardless of how it is held. In a defensive encounter, no bad guy is going to politely wait till you assume a "proper shooting stance".

My standard reliability test is to hold the pistol weak hand unsupported and very loose, and angle it 90 degrees to the left. If it works in this mode, the gun can be considered reliable.

Should the pistol fail this test, it is the design of the firearm, and not the fault of the shooter.

 

[CajunBass]

I don't know if limp-wristing is a "myth" or not, but I think like whiskey, it gets the blame for a lot of things it don't do. A semi does need something firm to push against, but you don't need a death grip on it, or you shouldn't.

I'd suspect either/or a combination of the gun needing a good cleaning if it was new to get the packing grease out, and trying a different ammo. If it kept doing it then, I'd look into shipping it back.

 

[blastfact]

Don't hear much on folks having limp wrist issues with Sigmas and other full size bottom feeders.

But OOOO my god does it come up a bunch concerning little pocket rockets like the KelTec PF-9.

I'm with mgo to a point on the topic. I practice at times hoping to find my pistols week point in cycling. They all run smooth as glass. Even the PF-9 pocket rocket.

IMPO I think we are seeing the byproduct of girly man syndrome! And the fact that more and more men have no understanding of basic mechanical principles. I know for a fact more men shake hands like a lady does than I have ever seen in my life. With many of these so called men having hands as soft if not softer than my wifes boobs for goodness sakes.

 

[supramatt]

Haha thanks for all the replies folks. I seem to have solved the problem. Originally I took the gun out to the range as gander had given it to me. I assumed with it being used they would have sufficiently cleaned an lubed it. However I went through it myself and took it to the range and fired 150 of the same ammo as before with no hiccups. I even shot it one handed with my bad hand for a mag without problems. It must have just been dry. I appreciate the help fellas!

 

[Walthernut]

Many members will likely disagree with my opinion, but "limp wrist" is a myth. No firearm should fail to function, regardless of how it is held. In a defensive encounter, no bad guy is going to politely wait till you assume a "proper shooting stance".

My standard reliability test is to hold the pistol weak hand unsupported and very loose, and angle it 90 degrees to the left. If it works in this mode, the gun can be considered reliable.

Should the pistol fail this test, it is the design of the firearm, and not the fault of the shooter.

I agree with you. I never heard of limp wristing up to a few years ago.

 

[delta1679]

My standard reliability test is to hold the pistol weak hand unsupported and very loose, and angle it 90 degrees to the left.

I bet that test makes you really popular with the folks shooting on adjacent lanes at the range.

 

[highdesert45]

Limp wristing?

Well, FTE has occurred with my boy, who is 10 years old, but not with me. I took my 9VE and cleaned it well and I have not experienced this since. Cleaning is probably the key....and these pistols are easy to clean.

 

[delta1679]

I experienced the first FTE with my SW40VE this past weekend. Actually it wasn't me, but rather a cousin who says she had never shot a handgun before. I had already put at least 20 rounds through it myself and my other cousin had gone through a full magazine with no problems prior to handing the gun over to her. Her very first round failed to eject properly. After that, she held on a bit more tightly and we had no problems at all through another 100 or so rounds.

I tend to keep that Sigma as clean as possible, usually cleaning it within hours of getting back from shooting. Not to re-start the argument on limp-wristing, but I think it's way too much of a coincidence to eliminate that as a possibility.

 

[Papillon]

The last time at the range we put 100 rounds thru the Sigma with two failures to eject. Both times happened when my wife tried shooting it.

After I had put 50 rounds downrange I let her try. Now my wife loves shooting, but doesn't like semi-autos. She has several revolvers including a 45 Colt that is flat deadly with.

I noticed that when she gripped the Sigma her hand was low on the grip, the web maybe 3/4 - 1" low, and she was holding it rather loosely. I let her fire to see what would happen, and it failed to eject. I cleared it, fired a few more rounds and handed it back to her. She took the same grip, fired, and again it failed.

So, I had her take a firm grip with the web of her hand as high as it can go on the grip, and she had no more failures.

I do not think it was simply coincidence.

 

[Walthernut]

Haha thanks for all the replies folks. I seem to have solved the problem. Originally I took the gun out to the range as gander had given it to me. I assumed with it being used they would have sufficiently cleaned an lubed it. However I went through it myself and took it to the range and fired 150 of the same ammo as before with no hiccups. I even shot it one handed with my bad hand for a mag without problems. It must have just been dry. I appreciate the help fellas!

Great. Kidnda gives you a different outlook on cleaning & lubing.