surprising 148 WC results

[Joe4d]

Loading Bayou coated 148gr cast wadcutters crimped at last groove just shy of flush.
3.1 grs Tightgroup in 38 special cases. Shot through a 686 pro series 5 inch.
Gun is zeroed with full power 357 158gr XTP's, and cast SWC's at 1300 fps, factory Remington 158's, factory Magtec 158's and factory fiochi 140 FMJ as well as hard cast 180's at 1100 hit about same place at 25 meters.
Loading the 148 mousefarts aqnd went to run some plate racks at 15,, miss miss miss,,, rounds were a good 4 inches high ? I didnt paper or sand bag, but dang wasnt exppecting that much change
Any thoughts ? Should I speed up or slow down the 148's to come closer to my normal zero ?

 

[Old_Cop]

Just to state the obvious, why not adjust the sights.

 

[mike campbell]

Speed will lower them, but you don't want to try to speed up a wadcutter to impact 4" lower @ 15m. Adjust your sights.

Turn your sight down to bottom while counting the number of clicks. Write it down, 158 mag @ 25m = X clicks.

Come up halfway and check the WC's. Adjust up or down as necessary to zero and write it down, 148WC @ 15m = Y clicks. Label the box.

 

[Joe4d]

Yeh , not changing sights.. guess I will load a batch at 950 and 750 see what happens.

 

[reddog81]

The simple answer is either adjust the sights or aim for the bottom of the plate. Adjusting the load will work but i'm guessing most wadcutters are meant for loads pushing 1,000 FPS. Be prepared to scrub your bore.

 

[Drm50]

I'm shooting WCs cast with WWs out of 14 & 25 at 750fps and
have no problem with leading. I have went to 850fps in 25
with no leading

 

[Nevada Ed]

Why not try out other powders if you have them?

Bullseye, w231 and Trail Boss work for me in a 38 special case.

 

[RGVshooter]

As a guy who regularly shoots a 4" 686 and 4" model 10 38 special....Yeah... you're going to get a deviance in elevation at distance of 25+ yards with different loads. This is here "Kentucky Windage" comes in handy. Learn it, embrace it, master it....Love it.

 

[Wise_A]

I will suggest that--sometimes--frequent elevation changes can wear out S&W adjustable rears. The fix isn't expensive, but swapping the parts is rather fiddly.

A six o'clock hold, on the other hand, doesn't change anything.

And yes, I know I'm always pushing six o'clock holds.

 

[rwsmith]

Think if you were to try....

Do you think that you could try shooting a lighter bullet at higher velocity? I can't remember who makes them but they make DEWC bullets in like 125 grains. I think even lighter. Hard cast for higher velocities.

NOTE: See Matt's Bullets 75, 95, 100, 110, 115, 125 gr. Double ended wadcutters.

PS: Target guns are often sighted to the 6:00 oclock position of the dark area of the target. 4" sounds like a lot, so you could use another ring to aim on. Or a combo of things if you don't won't to move your sights 4".

 

[reddog81]

I will suggest that--sometimes--frequent elevation changes can wear out S&W adjustable rears. The fix isn't expensive, but swapping the parts is rather fiddly.

A six o'clock hold, on the other hand, doesn't change anything.

And yes, I know I'm always pushing six o'clock holds.

If he's shooting a 8" plate and he's hitting 4" high changing to a six o'clock hold will have him ringing right in the middle of the plate. Additionally I find it easier to aim right at the bottom dead center of the plate. IMO it provides a better reference point than the middle of the plate.

 

[Joe4d]

Probably just set these aside then zero the wifes J frame to them. Go back to my 158 SWC.
Im a center mass shooter, plates were 6" I guess a much bigger jump going from 148's at 800 and 158's and 180's at 11-1300,,
Most of my experience is with 40 and different loads were very minor change by comparison.

 

[moosedog]

Wadcutters were designed for punching clean holes in paper. Why not shoot a SWC?

 

[Joe4d]

I am new to Smith Revolvers, and everyone always talking about these as classic target rounds. ot doing so hot.
If I did need the 2 zero rout could just go with 2 different front sights, easier than messing with the rear. I have that quick change set up.
Shot some more yesterday and everything was high actually. My gun went back to Smith for crown work, and I only shot one group with it to confirm repairs. Been sittign a couple years and just started shooting it again recently. So might need taller front sight after all.
Had to chose between blurry sights clear target ot clear sights blurry target. Shot better groups with clear sights,, still not liking these 148's. Also cases kinda dark on outside. I think they are just too light.
I shot some 147 gr TC over 4.4 American Select. These shot better. So did the 180's over HS6, but need to group some 158's next...
Might bump these 148's up 2 tenths, see if that helps.

 

[Forrest r]

Interesting to say the least.

The rules are?
There are no rules.

WC's do extremely well on plates/bowling pins/paper. They are also easy to reload seeing how they have so many different lube/crimp grooves. Take your 158gr load and bullet. Mark the seating depth of the 158gr bullet on the wc. Crimp the wc bullet in the crimp/lube groove that is the close to the mark. You are looking for the same case capacity.

Some plinking loads, nothing more than158gr fnhp's and 148gr wc's. The 158gr fnhp's are crimped in the bottom crimp groove & the 148gr wc's are crimped in the middle lube groove.

Bullets tend to be more accurate when moved out in the 38spl cases when being shot in 357 cylinders. Those loads pictured above/plinking/blammo ammo. Not hand picked targets by any means, nothing more then the actual test targets used to test 6-shot groups @ 50ft with the ammo pictured above.

The 148gr wc's actually had a little more case capacity so I bumped the powder up until both bullets had the same poa/poi.

Even with the wc's seated out the oal isn't too long for any of the 38spl revolvers I own.

You should try moving the wc's out/longer oal and use your standard loads from the 158's, 140's, 180's and see what happens. 1 of the loads should have the same poi/poa with the wc's.

I've ran 148gr wc's 1300fps+ in 357 cases with no problem. You can push them as hard as you want, they put a good smack on anything they hit.

 

[Targets Guy]

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from 10 yards

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[oddshooter]

I shot my 44 mag Seville and got 12" high hits with the back sight at the bottom. I was shooting heavy for caliber with light loads (300gr at 900fps). Sometimes called Flying Ashtrays. The groups were tiny at 25 yards, 1"; so this gun is a shooter. Without changing to a taller front sight, David Bradshaw told me to go light bullets for caliber and hot loads.

I shot factory 255 gr at 1000fps and dropped 3".

I tried handloading 200gr bullets going only 1150fps and dropped 8". Unbelievable !
I have some more 200gr bullets loaded for 1300fps and believe they may be the ticket.

Should anyone even do this? I have 44 mag rounds now for that one revolver. I marked them, but what a PITA.
I'm thinking a taller front sight and I can move the back sight off the floor and get some adjustment back. I think repairing the revolver rather than the ammo is a much better solution. Then I can shoot any kind of 44 mag ammo I want and adjust.

Prescut

 

[lrrifleman]

Hi Joe,

I don't mean to muddy the water, but ...

Shooting, cartridges and bullets are like ice cream, that is why there is Baskin Robbins.

Please remember that there are 3 different types of wadcutters, each filling a specific mission: hollow based wadcutters (HBWC), double ended, and button nosed. The classic wadcutter load uses the HBWC bullet at low velocity (c 710 fps) ... this is where the swaged skirt of the hollow based expands to catch the rifling and give the best accuracy. To get the same accuracy from cast DEWCs and BNWCs you have to play with the bullet sizing. Shooting a swaged HBWC at a higher velocity risks the separation of the hollow base skirt from the wadcutter.

DEWCs can be used to increase reloading speed (production, not charging the cylinder) or for semi-autos like the Smith 52 or the old Colt National Match 38s. BNWCs are typically a revolver bullet that can aid in aligning bullets into chambers when using a speedloader or speed strips.

Swayed HBWCs are velocity sensitive while cast WCs are not as velocity sensitive.

 

[Joe4d]

These 148 I had seated nearly flush over 3.1 grs tight group.
My other loads are out at typical length. Yeh These are bayou coated can push them at whatever velocity I want. Cases were sooty so I am thinking I need more pressure to work. Really though the intent was to make some mousefart loads for the wife to start with.
Ive got plenty of 158 SWC and 147 TC's

 

[lrrifleman]

These 148 I had seated nearly flush over 3.1 grs tight group.
My other loads are out at typical length. Yeh These are bayou coated can push them at whatever velocity I want. Cases were sooty so I am thinking I need more pressure to work. Really though the intent was to make some mousefart loads for the wife to start with.
Ive got plenty of 158 SWC and 147 TC's

Joe,

A true mousefart load would be comparable to 2.8 gr Bullseye at about 700 fps.

The presence of soot indicates that you need more crimp. Do a noticeable roll crimp into a crimp groove.If you want flush bullets, do a noticeable roll crimp over the top of the wadcutter. Take a look at a picture of a factory swaged HBWC as a guide.