SGT ROCK 11B
Member
Great video on Revolver Tactical Reload. I mentioned this technique and apparently a lot of younger revolver shooters are not familiar with it.
Tactical Reloads for Revolvers
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Great video and reminder that at minimum carrying a speed strip would be wise.
To be honest this is a skill that would also be important to focus on for those that carry a semi-auto as well and a reason to carry a reload with the semi-auto.
When I was working in LE and attending regular trainings tactical reload skills were practiced on your range training days.
While carrying a back up 442 revolver I would practice this skill when I qualified so that I kept my revolver topped off during qualification so I would not slow down the firing line for those carrying semi-autos.
Thanks for posting.
To be honest this is a skill that would also be important to focus on for those that carry a semi-auto as well and a reason to carry a reload with the semi-auto.
When I was working in LE and attending regular trainings tactical reload skills were practiced on your range training days.
While carrying a back up 442 revolver I would practice this skill when I qualified so that I kept my revolver topped off during qualification so I would not slow down the firing line for those carrying semi-autos.
Thanks for posting.
Good video. I've mentioned this in other posts. For "tactical" oriented revolver shooters even just punching holes in paper always use your speed strips or loaders. And practice that partial reload too. Know your indexing. Keep that manual dexterity sharp.
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When I was heavily involved in shooting revolver in IDPA, I got halfway decent at this. My usual loadout when carrying a revolver is a speedloader and a speed strip or a 2x2x2 pouch.
What I hope I'll do if I ever have to do this for real is shoot, then run like hell to the nearest hard cover, then reload.
What I hope I'll do if I ever have to do this for real is shoot, then run like hell to the nearest hard cover, then reload.
I wonder how those revolvers that use moon clips work for a tactical reload? I'm thinking it's kind of hard to pick out and replace two or three rounds. Yeah, I like my defensive revolvers to utilize only the cartridge rim.
OP
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
In 45 ACP they had half moon clips, three rounders. But they are not practical. You really need to dump all six to reload.
When I was carrying a 1917 it was easier to carry the full moon clips. You could fit two full moon clips in the N Frame speed loader case. Also when I worked Investigations I would put the moon clips in my Sportcoat pockets, Dirty Harry style.
When I was carrying a 1917 it was easier to carry the full moon clips. You could fit two full moon clips in the N Frame speed loader case. Also when I worked Investigations I would put the moon clips in my Sportcoat pockets, Dirty Harry style.
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OP
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
OP
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
Great tips.
Jim Watson
Member
IDPA used to love the Tac Load and I worked on it a good bit.
But even they treated the revolver as a red headed stepchild, the printed recommendation for a partial reload of a revolver was
"Eject the contents of the cylinder into your hand, dump the whole mess in a pocket, reload as usual."
Considering that one of their rationales for the Tac Load was to have a partial load available for later use so you didn't run out of ammo, this was not very effective. I called it the "Baby with the bathwater reload."
I called the video's method the "Eyeball plucking reload" except that since all my ammo was in speedloaders, I would pluck the empties and then let the live rounds fall out and pocket them, ready for reuse. Which was a very uncommon CoF requirement.
Then there was the "Modified baby with the bathwater reload." Drop the loose live rounds out and pocket them, stroke the ejector rod as you reach for the speedloader.
When shooting the M25, most ammo was in full moon clips but I always carried along some in the little two shot clips and some loose .45 Auto Rim in case the CoF was tricky.
M. Ayoob observed that a .44 Magnum speedloader pouch would hold two layers of clipped ACPs so you had twice the ammo and fewer concerns about dropping a partial clip.
But even they treated the revolver as a red headed stepchild, the printed recommendation for a partial reload of a revolver was
"Eject the contents of the cylinder into your hand, dump the whole mess in a pocket, reload as usual."
Considering that one of their rationales for the Tac Load was to have a partial load available for later use so you didn't run out of ammo, this was not very effective. I called it the "Baby with the bathwater reload."
I called the video's method the "Eyeball plucking reload" except that since all my ammo was in speedloaders, I would pluck the empties and then let the live rounds fall out and pocket them, ready for reuse. Which was a very uncommon CoF requirement.
Then there was the "Modified baby with the bathwater reload." Drop the loose live rounds out and pocket them, stroke the ejector rod as you reach for the speedloader.
When shooting the M25, most ammo was in full moon clips but I always carried along some in the little two shot clips and some loose .45 Auto Rim in case the CoF was tricky.
M. Ayoob observed that a .44 Magnum speedloader pouch would hold two layers of clipped ACPs so you had twice the ammo and fewer concerns about dropping a partial clip.
OP
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
Before I retired I noticed the Range Staff was going in a different direction. More Target shooting instead of Tactical shooting.
The various Qualification Courses now is shoot until lock back.
OP
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
I figured that out when I was looking for ammo pouches when I carried a S&W 1917 on duty.
DRankin
Member
Here are some ideas.
A 4 pack:
Singles:
A 6 pack:
The largest one is a little beat up. Survived years of winter foot patrol, many, many bar fights and a couple of nasty falls.....
A 4 pack:
Singles:
A 6 pack:
The largest one is a little beat up. Survived years of winter foot patrol, many, many bar fights and a couple of nasty falls.....
DRankin
Member
Whoops almost forgot this one.................
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The KEY to fast revolver reloads, no matter which method, brand of speed loader, pouch, moon clip, etc is used is constant practice! With practice often one can usually master the process, but lay idle for a few months and your tactical reloads slow down and suffer.
When I carried a 2" Chief's Special (for 40 years) my personal preference was a Kramer Leather belt carrier in the 2-2-2 configuration. Yea, 1 extra round - but in case of a dropped one it does come in handy. I got pretty darn fast with that method loading 2,2 &1 and liked the flat, compact ease of either carrying it on my belt or in a pocket. Obviously the belt carry method was much faster but better slower than not have a reload on your person at all.
I recently sold a bunch of speed loaders for different models as I had way too many. I did use speed loaders successfully in PPC matches but the bulk and obviousness of them does not matter there. For matches, the HKS were my preferred brand.
When I carried a 2" Chief's Special (for 40 years) my personal preference was a Kramer Leather belt carrier in the 2-2-2 configuration. Yea, 1 extra round - but in case of a dropped one it does come in handy. I got pretty darn fast with that method loading 2,2 &1 and liked the flat, compact ease of either carrying it on my belt or in a pocket. Obviously the belt carry method was much faster but better slower than not have a reload on your person at all.
I recently sold a bunch of speed loaders for different models as I had way too many. I did use speed loaders successfully in PPC matches but the bulk and obviousness of them does not matter there. For matches, the HKS were my preferred brand.
StrawHat
Member
A partial stroke of the ejector rod goes against everything I was trained and what I taught. Muzzle straight up, firm stroke, reload, keep your eyes on the target.
When you are shooting for real, your fine motor skills are minimized. Fumbling with empties and reloading less than a full cylinder is time consuming and counterproductive.
When shooting competition, sure, play games but when your life is on the line, play it smart.
Kevin
When you are shooting for real, your fine motor skills are minimized. Fumbling with empties and reloading less than a full cylinder is time consuming and counterproductive.
When shooting competition, sure, play games but when your life is on the line, play it smart.
Kevin
OP
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
You must have been trained after speed loaders became common.
Were you ever issued a dump pouch and/or bullet loops?
OP
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
“An amateur practices until he can do everything right and a professional practices until he can't do anything wrong.”
This is one of those "it depends" things. If you've successfully dealt with the bad guy and are reasonably certain he doesn't have friends in the near vicinity, doing a tactical reload can make sense. Otherwise, I'm dumping whatever's in the cylinder and using a speedloader.
StrawHat
Member
Dump pouches were available but I never bothered with them. The bullet loops were also available and used by the cowboys who thought they looked cool. I ran with speedloaders or full moon clips depending on which revolver I was carrying. They worked for me.
Kevin
I am in no way a fan of this. Period. Full stop.
1) As a new LEO in the mid 1980s I was required to use a 6 shot revolver and was issued .38 Special ammunition. Even at that late date the administrators in charge were not pro gun and not progressive in terms of tactics. They only allowed a dump pouch with 6 rounds in it. Every try to reload from a dump pouch under stress and manage not to drop one? Allowing 7 rounds in the pouch would have been reasonable, but no, not allowed. 6 was the number and the number was six, seven was right out.
You want to use a speed loader?!?!?! Heresy of the worst sort. In that regard it reflected policies that were at least 15 years out of date and at least 20 years behind the cutting edge in revolver reloads even then.
The solution of course was a "I'd rather be fired, than dead" approach of carrying an unauthorized J frame in an ankle holster for a "New York reload".
In any case, even in that antiquated pre mid 1960s system, a dump pouch was not very friendly for shooting 2 and then loading 2.
2) While on that subject, the Newhall shooting in 1970 occurred at a time when the CHP also did not allow speed loaders, with the result that officer James Pence was shot and killed while doing a full reload with single rounds from a dump pouch.
One of the many changes that resulted were policies such as loading 2 rounds and getting back in the fight with a "shoot 2, load 2" approach.
But let's be clear that was "shoot it dry, then load 2 to get back in the fight in minimum time with minimum loss of situational awareness and *then* shoot 2, load 2. It was never intended as "shoot 2, then take your perfectly good revolver with four rounds still in it, out of action so you can go head down to fiddle fart around ejecting two rounds and then loading two more to top it off" and then get back in the fight. That's actually dumber than shooting all six and single loading as those four rounds left in the gun more often than not would end the fight.
In short, farm animal stupid, for any real world purpose.
3) It sounds good in theory to press the ejector rod out slightly to lift the rounds out so the fired brass stick up. Reality is different.
The first problem is that high pressure rounds like .357 Magnum will often be a little sticky. It's why they moved away from the FBI reload to the Universal and Stress Fire reloads. If those fired rounds are sticking in the chambers, a light press won't do it. And if you press hard and they suddenly pop loose you are likely to launch all six rounds right out of the cylinder. Gee, that's awkward...
A second problem is that you're going to have to go eyes off the threat to visually confirm what's happening, pick those two rounds out and load the other two.
4) Assuming a partial two round reload was used as intended, as a quick partial reload after firing all six original rounds, it's still far less optimum than using a speed loader than can load six fresh rounds in the same or less time.
Plus with some practice you can reload with a speed loader with your head up and eyes always on the threat. (I prefer the Stress Fire reload for positive ejection, keeping your head up, and not putting yourself in a wrist lock.)
5) Now as an armed citizen there are times I may carry a revolver and may decide not to carry a speed loader, but rather will carry a speed strip instead. Usually it's because it carries with a lower profile than even a slip over speed loader case and fits in the watch pocket on a pair of jeans. In this case the "speed strip" in the pocket is a 6 round K-Pak.
For that purpose I will practice loading with a speed strip, but it's after ejecting all six or seven rounds, and done as much as possible while keeping my eyes on the threat.
And in that case I will use a K-Pak as:
- I can load 3 in the same time it takes to load 2 with a speed strip;
- I can stay eyes on thread while doing it; and
- if time and tactical situation allows, I can load the other 3 in not much more time.
6) I do agree there should never be any such thing as an administrative reload. You should take every opportunity to practice a tactical reload.
Need to clean your revolver, or you're one of those misguided souls who unloads every night when you get home? do a tactical reload. Dump the rounds in the gun, load your spare rounds, and then dump them as well. Reload your speed loader(s) and practice once or twice more. That's several hundred tactical reloads a year if you practice daily, and you'll be able to do it smoothly without thinking.
There are plenty of options out there. Try a few, pick one that works well for you and then practice with it.
But in general, forget the "shoot two, load two" as depicted in the video. I'll do something like that out rabbit hunting with a revolver as there is plenty of time in between shots stalking the next bunny, and so far none of them have ever shot back.
1) As a new LEO in the mid 1980s I was required to use a 6 shot revolver and was issued .38 Special ammunition. Even at that late date the administrators in charge were not pro gun and not progressive in terms of tactics. They only allowed a dump pouch with 6 rounds in it. Every try to reload from a dump pouch under stress and manage not to drop one? Allowing 7 rounds in the pouch would have been reasonable, but no, not allowed. 6 was the number and the number was six, seven was right out.
You want to use a speed loader?!?!?! Heresy of the worst sort. In that regard it reflected policies that were at least 15 years out of date and at least 20 years behind the cutting edge in revolver reloads even then.
The solution of course was a "I'd rather be fired, than dead" approach of carrying an unauthorized J frame in an ankle holster for a "New York reload".
In any case, even in that antiquated pre mid 1960s system, a dump pouch was not very friendly for shooting 2 and then loading 2.
2) While on that subject, the Newhall shooting in 1970 occurred at a time when the CHP also did not allow speed loaders, with the result that officer James Pence was shot and killed while doing a full reload with single rounds from a dump pouch.
One of the many changes that resulted were policies such as loading 2 rounds and getting back in the fight with a "shoot 2, load 2" approach.
But let's be clear that was "shoot it dry, then load 2 to get back in the fight in minimum time with minimum loss of situational awareness and *then* shoot 2, load 2. It was never intended as "shoot 2, then take your perfectly good revolver with four rounds still in it, out of action so you can go head down to fiddle fart around ejecting two rounds and then loading two more to top it off" and then get back in the fight. That's actually dumber than shooting all six and single loading as those four rounds left in the gun more often than not would end the fight.
In short, farm animal stupid, for any real world purpose.
3) It sounds good in theory to press the ejector rod out slightly to lift the rounds out so the fired brass stick up. Reality is different.
The first problem is that high pressure rounds like .357 Magnum will often be a little sticky. It's why they moved away from the FBI reload to the Universal and Stress Fire reloads. If those fired rounds are sticking in the chambers, a light press won't do it. And if you press hard and they suddenly pop loose you are likely to launch all six rounds right out of the cylinder. Gee, that's awkward...
A second problem is that you're going to have to go eyes off the threat to visually confirm what's happening, pick those two rounds out and load the other two.
4) Assuming a partial two round reload was used as intended, as a quick partial reload after firing all six original rounds, it's still far less optimum than using a speed loader than can load six fresh rounds in the same or less time.
Plus with some practice you can reload with a speed loader with your head up and eyes always on the threat. (I prefer the Stress Fire reload for positive ejection, keeping your head up, and not putting yourself in a wrist lock.)
5) Now as an armed citizen there are times I may carry a revolver and may decide not to carry a speed loader, but rather will carry a speed strip instead. Usually it's because it carries with a lower profile than even a slip over speed loader case and fits in the watch pocket on a pair of jeans. In this case the "speed strip" in the pocket is a 6 round K-Pak.
For that purpose I will practice loading with a speed strip, but it's after ejecting all six or seven rounds, and done as much as possible while keeping my eyes on the threat.
And in that case I will use a K-Pak as:
- I can load 3 in the same time it takes to load 2 with a speed strip;
- I can stay eyes on thread while doing it; and
- if time and tactical situation allows, I can load the other 3 in not much more time.
6) I do agree there should never be any such thing as an administrative reload. You should take every opportunity to practice a tactical reload.
Need to clean your revolver, or you're one of those misguided souls who unloads every night when you get home? do a tactical reload. Dump the rounds in the gun, load your spare rounds, and then dump them as well. Reload your speed loader(s) and practice once or twice more. That's several hundred tactical reloads a year if you practice daily, and you'll be able to do it smoothly without thinking.
There are plenty of options out there. Try a few, pick one that works well for you and then practice with it.
But in general, forget the "shoot two, load two" as depicted in the video. I'll do something like that out rabbit hunting with a revolver as there is plenty of time in between shots stalking the next bunny, and so far none of them have ever shot back.
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