Taper crimp while seating, Or not?

[guntherapist]

I ordered some Hornady dies for loading my new .40, 3-die set. Since then I have noticed 4 die sets that have the crimp as a individual function. I never noticed a separate roll crimp die for my revolver reloads.
What are the drawbacks of taper crimping while seating?
Thanks,
Randy

 

[guntherapist]

I ordered some Hornady dies for loading my new .40, 3-die set. Since then I have noticed 4 die sets that have the crimp as a individual function. I never noticed a separate roll crimp die for my revolver reloads.
What are the drawbacks of taper crimping while seating?
Thanks,
Randy

 

[James57]

I have used the taper crimp as a separate function since about 89' in my semi-autos. I have never used it in conjunction with the seating operation but I can't imagine it would cause a problem if the seating die is correctly adjusted. My experience and opinion only. James

 

[johngalt]

I've questioned this myself. I when I first started loading .45 auto, I seated and crimped in the same step. I crimped just barely enough so that the cartridge would drop freely into the breech.

I later read that I should seat and taper crimp separately. I have a Hornady LNL press, so I got the powder-thru expander for the powder measure and removed the separate expander die to free up a hole, and added the taper crimp die.

I'm not convinced there is any difference in the accuracy of my rounds. I'm not very happy with the operation of the press with the PTX and taper crimp.

The PTX expands just barely enough to seat the bullet, and it isn't consistent. Sometimes it shaves bullets, sometimes not. At the beginning of a loading session, I remove all the dies except the powder measure and run cases through it until I'm satisfied it is throwing what I want. Since the PTX is in there, every time the case gets expanded a little more, eventually ruining it.

Both the PTX and the taper crimp are very rough. The taper crimp is particularly rough when running FMJ bullets through it. The press was much smoother operating with the old setup.

The next time I load .45 auto, I will probably go back.

My old setup:
1 = resize/decap
2 = expand
3 = powder
4 = powder check
5 = seat + crimp

Current setup:
1 = resize/decap
2 = expand + powder
3 = powder check
4 = seat
5 = crimp

 

[Texas Roots]

guntherapist, in my experience, it is ok to seat and crimp in one operation when you are loading jacketed bullets.

It is not such a good idea when loading cast bullets because right at the last part of the seating operation, as the die begins crimping, it usually will shave some metal off the bullet until seating/crimping is completed. It is best to seat and crimp in separate operations when loading cast bullets.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[guntherapist]

Thanks all.
I feel more assured now to continue with my plan of a 3-die set and seat/crimp simultaneously.
I will be using jacketed bullets, but if I ever use cast I will rethink about it.
Besides, I also use a single stage press.

 

[Skip Sackett]

gun,

I have the luxury of having two different styles of progressive presses. Both Dillons, Square Deal B's and an XL650. The SDB comes in a 4 station configuration with the seating and crimping steps separate. With the XL650 I employ either a Lee Factory Crimp die or Taper Crimp die in the 5th hole. Then all the seating die does is seat the bullet and close the case back to straight. In the 4th/5th steps respectively, I apply the final crimp.

In my opinion, and armed with that and $5 you can get a cup of coffee at Starbucks, seating and crimping in two separate steps is more desirable. Why? Simply as someone has mentioned, timing issues. If done in one step and the bullet isn't done traveling before crimp is being applied you can end up with scraped bullets or even worse, wrinkled cases.

If you are going to use your die to do both functions, and they are designed to do that, make sure you set it up correctly.

Here is how I do it:
I have a charged case in my press. I take the seating die and screw it together almost all of the way. This makes the bullet seating part of the die hit the bullet before the outside hits the case. Move the ram up in the press with a bullet sitting on the charged case. Slowly screw the seating die in until the bullet makes contact. Lower the ram, screw the die in, raise the ram. I repeat those steps until I get the OAL the recipe calls for. Now screw the die itself apart as far as possible. With the bullet still in the press that you previously assembled and at the top of the stroke, screw the die in until the outside part touches the case. It is critical at this time that the bullet seater NOT contact the bullet. If it does, screw the die apart more. Lower the ram, screw the die in, raise the ram. Repeat those steps until you get the desired crimp you are after. Now, with your finished round in the press and at the top of the stroke, tighten the lock ring on the die then screw the bullet seating portion of the die in until it contacts the bullet and that should do it.

If for some reason you need to make an adjustment after that just remember, adding more crimp means you have to back out the seating portion too.

I hope that is a clear as mud! If not, let me know and I will try to break it down with some pictures or a video.

 

[Bassamatic]

I have a charged case in my press. I take the seating die and screw it together almost all of the way. This makes the bullet seating part of the die hit the bullet before the outside hits the case. Move the ram up in the press with a bullet sitting on the charged case. Slowly screw the seating die in until the bullet makes contact. Lower the ram, screw the die in, raise the ram. I repeat those steps until I get the OAL the recipe calls for. Now screw the die itself apart as far as possible. With the bullet still in the press that you previously assembled and at the top of the stroke, screw the die in until the outside part touches the case. It is critical at this time that the bullet seater NOT contact the bullet. If it does, screw the die apart more. Lower the ram, screw the die in, raise the ram. Repeat those steps until you get the desired crimp you are after. Now, with your finished round in the press and at the top of the stroke, tighten the lock ring on the die then screw the bullet seating portion of the die in until it contacts the bullet and that should do it.

If for some reason you need to make an adjustment after that just remember, adding more crimp means you have to back out the seating portion too.

That's a little different than how I have been doing it...but I like yours better. I'll try it. Thanks.

By the way, RCBS says it perfectly fine to seat and crimp your bullet in one stage.

 

[TSQUARED]

I always use separate dies for seating and crimping. Fewer lead shavings with lead bulets and one does not injure the plating on the plated bullets. With jacketed bullets a separate crimping die might not be required.

 

[Amici]

I found that shaving problems were often the consequence of my not belling the case sufficiently. While one can certainly OVER-bell, an adjustment to your PXT or belling die may be in order.

The recommendation that one seat and crimp separately is due to the fact that the bullet must still be moving during the crimp if the operations are combined. If using jacketed bullets, you will probably never notice a problem; if you load plated or lead bullets, you may.

I seat and crimp separately because I now use a Lee Factory Crimp die on all my auto pistol cartridges. It solves a couple of problems and I consider it an extremely cost-effective addition to my Dillons.