Unfortunately with ammo like Remington and Winchester being so expensive these days, that's pretty much all I can afford to shoot. Some people don't have a lot of money to spend. I also can't afford to start reloading right now, and besides I've heard components are hard to come buy and the cost saving gap is narrowing.
Terrible leading in new 642-1
- Thread starter JayFramer
- Start date
Unfortunately with ammo like Remington and Winchester being so expensive these days, that's pretty much all I can afford to shoot. Some people don't have a lot of money to spend. I also can't afford to start reloading right now, and besides I've heard components are hard to come buy and the cost saving gap is narrowing.
flintsghost
Member
The Privi ammo is imported from Serbia. The lead bullet is cold swaged lead which means virtually dead soft. It would lead any gun it's used in. If you feel compelled to use it due to cost, the Lewis lead remover kit is your best option. Another consideration is possibly finding someone who sells reloaded ammunition in your area that uses cast lead which will always be harder than cold swaged lead. That may help a little. Back in the '60s when I started loading my own, I used a Lee Loader which then cost about $6. They aren't very expensive even now if you can find one. While it's slow, it does work. You can buy hard cast lead bullets from a variety of sources cheap and put together better ammo. But until you do reload use a Lewis lead remover as they do work well.
Just a thought about using different budget ammo that's not made by one of the major American ammo companies ....
Back a few years ago one of the other instructors was running a night qual range where someone brought an older M36 (blue steel) snub, and was using one of the brands of all-lead imported .38 Spl ammo. The owner experienced repeated stoppage problems caused by the soft lead bullets "jumping" the crimps and causing the cylinder to bind as the bullet protruded from the cylinder face and hit against the frame.
Bear in mind that this was in an all-steel M36, not one of the ultra lightweight Airlites with a titanium cylinder, either.
When the other instructor called me to report the problem (because he'd never seen it happen in a steel J before), he also said that the owner of the gun was kicking himself for scrimping on buying qual ammo, instead of using a more expensive brand. The specific brand of ammo isn't important to this thread, except to say that it was imported from "Europe/Eastern Europe".
Sometimes you may get what you pay for ...
Back a few years ago one of the other instructors was running a night qual range where someone brought an older M36 (blue steel) snub, and was using one of the brands of all-lead imported .38 Spl ammo. The owner experienced repeated stoppage problems caused by the soft lead bullets "jumping" the crimps and causing the cylinder to bind as the bullet protruded from the cylinder face and hit against the frame.
Bear in mind that this was in an all-steel M36, not one of the ultra lightweight Airlites with a titanium cylinder, either.
When the other instructor called me to report the problem (because he'd never seen it happen in a steel J before), he also said that the owner of the gun was kicking himself for scrimping on buying qual ammo, instead of using a more expensive brand. The specific brand of ammo isn't important to this thread, except to say that it was imported from "Europe/Eastern Europe".
Sometimes you may get what you pay for ...
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True. I've had good luck with many brands of foreign ammo in all my other guns. I certainly didn't have good luck this time with this gun/load combo! I'm going to be seeking out more FMJ or plated .38 ammo for my new lil' snub-snub!
scooter123
Member
Jay, about reloading.
Components such as primers, cases, and bullets are rather easy to find currently, it's powder that is sometimes an issue. However, if you hit the gun shows, put your name in at local shops, and keep an eye out on suppliers like Powder Valley, Wideners, Natchez, 3rd Generation shooters supply, Graf's, and others you will eventually find enough powder to keep well stocked. Point is, it takes a bit of work but you can maintain reloading supply stocks.
Cost, for a very basic setup you can start reloading with an investment of about 300 bucks. A great press such as the RCBS Rock Chucker can be purchased for around 160 dollars and sometimes you can find it on sale for as little as 120 dollars. Some Lee presses sell for under 100 dollars. A good beam scale such as the RCBS 502 will set you back about 80-90 bucks. The RCBS universal hand primer is currently on sale for 59.99. Then there is the Lee Perfect Powder measure, which is sensitive about what powders it works well with but only costs about 30 bucks.
As for component costs. Starline 38 special cases run 130 dollars from Starline and will last for at least 30 or 40 reloading cycles. Plated 125 grain 38 special bullets cost about 80 dollars per 1000 from Extreme bullets and the shipping is free. CCI Primers are currently on sale at Cabela's for 29.99 per 1000 and last time I picked some up at a gun show 1000 Large Pistol primers cost me 35 dollars. BTW, I'm picky about my primers and only use CCI. Figure on an average cost of 35 dollars for primers. Powder can seem expensive but with 7000 grains in a pound even a 30 dollar per pound powder can result in a low cost load. My favorite powder for 38 special is Vihtavouri 3N37 and I use a 6.7 grain charge for each load. If you do the math you'll find that it costs me about 8 dollars to reload a box of 50 38 specials assuming a 40 cycle life on cases. Compare that to the cost of commercial 38 special, which typically runs well over 20 dollars a box.
BTW, reloading can be addictive so it can get expensive in some respects. It will be 2 or 3 years before there won't be some bit of hardware you have on your want list. Currently I'm picking up additional Seat/Crimp dies to avoid having to do changeovers. You'll also find purchasing bullets can seem like a never ending expense. The good news is that I no longer feel that shooting 300 rounds a week is splurging, in my actual costs that is only about 50 dollars.
Components such as primers, cases, and bullets are rather easy to find currently, it's powder that is sometimes an issue. However, if you hit the gun shows, put your name in at local shops, and keep an eye out on suppliers like Powder Valley, Wideners, Natchez, 3rd Generation shooters supply, Graf's, and others you will eventually find enough powder to keep well stocked. Point is, it takes a bit of work but you can maintain reloading supply stocks.
Cost, for a very basic setup you can start reloading with an investment of about 300 bucks. A great press such as the RCBS Rock Chucker can be purchased for around 160 dollars and sometimes you can find it on sale for as little as 120 dollars. Some Lee presses sell for under 100 dollars. A good beam scale such as the RCBS 502 will set you back about 80-90 bucks. The RCBS universal hand primer is currently on sale for 59.99. Then there is the Lee Perfect Powder measure, which is sensitive about what powders it works well with but only costs about 30 bucks.
As for component costs. Starline 38 special cases run 130 dollars from Starline and will last for at least 30 or 40 reloading cycles. Plated 125 grain 38 special bullets cost about 80 dollars per 1000 from Extreme bullets and the shipping is free. CCI Primers are currently on sale at Cabela's for 29.99 per 1000 and last time I picked some up at a gun show 1000 Large Pistol primers cost me 35 dollars. BTW, I'm picky about my primers and only use CCI. Figure on an average cost of 35 dollars for primers. Powder can seem expensive but with 7000 grains in a pound even a 30 dollar per pound powder can result in a low cost load. My favorite powder for 38 special is Vihtavouri 3N37 and I use a 6.7 grain charge for each load. If you do the math you'll find that it costs me about 8 dollars to reload a box of 50 38 specials assuming a 40 cycle life on cases. Compare that to the cost of commercial 38 special, which typically runs well over 20 dollars a box.
BTW, reloading can be addictive so it can get expensive in some respects. It will be 2 or 3 years before there won't be some bit of hardware you have on your want list. Currently I'm picking up additional Seat/Crimp dies to avoid having to do changeovers. You'll also find purchasing bullets can seem like a never ending expense. The good news is that I no longer feel that shooting 300 rounds a week is splurging, in my actual costs that is only about 50 dollars.
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158 grain RNL is my regular target shooting and plinking load over 3.2 grains of Titegroup. It is a mild, accurate and consistent load and in all my .38/.357's and actually is about the LEAST leading round I have ever shot. I use .357 diameter hard cast bullets from the popular casters. My theory is that because the RNL eases it's way (because of the spear like shape) into the forcing cone/barrel, it bangs against the sides less than the sharp shouldered WC and SWC shapes and therefore is not deformed like other bullets. Less banging around and less deformity = less leading and contributes to better accuracy.
You might want to check to see if your forcing cone is rough, if the timing is correct and use a Range Rod to confirm barrel cylinder alignment.
If this is a continual situation I'd try different brands of ammo and I'd also call S&W and see what they have to say. Some leading is normal but excessive leading like you have portrayed is not only annoying but just not right IMHO. I NEVER shoot swaged bullets - way too soft for my liking.
The Lewis Lead Remover is simply the BEST for safe removal of lead fowling from barrels & cylinders - IMHO.
Chief38
You might want to check to see if your forcing cone is rough, if the timing is correct and use a Range Rod to confirm barrel cylinder alignment.
If this is a continual situation I'd try different brands of ammo and I'd also call S&W and see what they have to say. Some leading is normal but excessive leading like you have portrayed is not only annoying but just not right IMHO. I NEVER shoot swaged bullets - way too soft for my liking.
The Lewis Lead Remover is simply the BEST for safe removal of lead fowling from barrels & cylinders - IMHO.
Chief38
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Ratwrangler
Member
Soft lead bullets can be made to work well, they have been used in target applications forever, but these are not the cheapie slugs used for budget ammo.
A trick I have been using to clean out lead when I have a less successful experiment is I make a little copper scraper out of 10 or 12 gauge copper wire. I take a piece a bit longer than my barrel (6"?) and strip the first inch or so. Then I may or may not flatten the end a little with a hammer, the idea being to end up with a chisel point just a little narrower than the grooves. Then I shape the point carefully with a file, it doesn't need to have a knife edge as that will weaken it, but crisp and square, with a slight curve to match the bore radius. Then I fold enough of it over 90 degrees so that it will just fit down the bore. The pressure to the tool can be adjusted by arcing the first inch or two near the chisel point to push against the opposite side of the barrel. You can tell when it is "riding the groove" as it will rotate in hand as you push and pull through the bore.
For a short barrel it should be very easy to fabricate one to work effectively. I have "unleaded" rifle bores up to about 20" with this technique and if there is anything built up on the lands that should fire off with a few jacketed rounds.
A trick I have been using to clean out lead when I have a less successful experiment is I make a little copper scraper out of 10 or 12 gauge copper wire. I take a piece a bit longer than my barrel (6"?) and strip the first inch or so. Then I may or may not flatten the end a little with a hammer, the idea being to end up with a chisel point just a little narrower than the grooves. Then I shape the point carefully with a file, it doesn't need to have a knife edge as that will weaken it, but crisp and square, with a slight curve to match the bore radius. Then I fold enough of it over 90 degrees so that it will just fit down the bore. The pressure to the tool can be adjusted by arcing the first inch or two near the chisel point to push against the opposite side of the barrel. You can tell when it is "riding the groove" as it will rotate in hand as you push and pull through the bore.
For a short barrel it should be very easy to fabricate one to work effectively. I have "unleaded" rifle bores up to about 20" with this technique and if there is anything built up on the lands that should fire off with a few jacketed rounds.
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