I don't put much faith in law enforcement when it comes to testing firearms. Now before anyone jumps in I'm former sheriff myself. First just because a guy is in some form of law enforcement doesn't make him a gun enthusiast or anywhere close to an expert. Second depending on budget training ammo varies greatly on that same subject you might be surprised to know most cops seldom hit the range unless it's a week before the have to qualify. Third where these guns given to seasoned officers or green as grass recruits?
Texas DPS ditches M&P and returns to SIG
- Thread starter Badkarma 1
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OP
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
Hah, that's a funny thread... actually kind of a joke. Filled with misinformation, twisted info, unsubstantiated info and exaggerated info and examples of failure... I especially got a kick out of the old striker breakage issue being brought up like that's a problem today... then the old ownership and lock being brought up.... really was a comical thread filled with nothing of value. I could see several members from here, calling out the BS in a nice way and the typical M&P trolls pushing 3rd gen S&W like it's the only gun ever built...
The interesting part though is, all those things did happen at one time.
The old 39/59 series had its problems too, nothing is perfect but Smith had 40 years to get them right. The M&P series for the most part runs fine...BUT WE BOTH KNOW that the 9mm version for whatever reason has been plagued by gremlins.
I've shot most of the M&P line and in the limited amount of shooting they ran fine.
The way I see it is sooner or later we'll find out what happened down in Texas and North Carolina.
But it occurs to me that some here are a bit thin skinned when it comes to critiquing or criticizing they're favorite model, caliber, carry style, etc.
In simpler language:"Yeah, whatever!"
Dale
I'm sure the DPS and S&W can sort this out without my 10 microns of help, but I always wonder if a department switches to a new pistol and then buys a bunch of jake leg low bid semi-in spec commercial reloads for the changeover. Cheaper ammo is one of the main reasons for the switch (I don't care what the press releases say, I've seen what ammo prices have done to LE shooting budgets the last few years), cheap is the MAIN reason, so why not stay with the theme? I do not think current production conditions favor high quality ammo.
100% with you on that. Only problems I've every had with my M&P 9 Pro were with reloads and less powerful ammo.
Alll wrong here!!!
Nooo, I don't know that the 9mm M&P was plagued by gremlins!! Don't put words into my posts.. I have been shooting M&P's for over 4years now, shooting thousands of rds with zero issues.. As for thin skinned, not at all... but I won't stand by and ignore unsubstantiated claims!!
Just for fun, went out last night and shot hundreds of rounds through an assortment of M&P's, my 40FS with a S\L 9mm barrel, my 40 Shield and my BG380.... zero issues as is always the case.... just another day at the range... rapid fire, slow fire, double taps.. you name it..... soooo I don't identify when I read something online and there is no FACTS to stand on... What I experienced last night is FACT... I didn't read, hear or imagine it....
Oh ya... in addition.... I also shot an AK and a 9mm Uzi I built along with my new LE901.... I had a fun filled 2hrs of just shooting it up!! ANd my wife.... she came along, so I have a witness!! She had a blast shooting her M&P 15-22 and her M317...
OP
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
Alll wrong here!!!
Nooo, I don't know that the 9mm M&P was plagued by gremlins!! Don't put words into my posts.. I have been shooting M&P's for over 4years now, shooting thousands of rds with zero issues.. As for thin skinned, not at all... but I won't stand by and ignore unsubstantiated claims!!
Just for fun, went out last night and shot hundreds of rounds through an assortment of M&P's, my 40FS with a S\L 9mm barrel, my 40 Shield and my BG380.... zero issues as is always the case.... just another day at the range... rapid fire, slow fire, double taps.. you name it..... soooo I don't identify when I read something online and there is no FACTS to stand on... What I experienced last night is FACT... I didn't read, hear or imagine it....
Oh ya... in addition.... I also shot an AK and a 9mm Uzi I built along with my new LE901.... I had a fun filled 2hrs of just shooting it up!! ANd my wife.... she came along, so I have a witness!! She had a blast shooting her M&P 15-22 and her M317...
You want a cookie?
To my knowledge there really wasn't any major issues and S&W is still shipping guns to DPS.
My guess is that since this was a bunch of cadets, there was a couple malfunction and a broken mag base plate (they shoot on concrete), but no one was tracking which gun it was so they assumed it was all of them. Misinformation at its best.
C4
My guess is that since this was a bunch of cadets, there was a couple malfunction and a broken mag base plate (they shoot on concrete), but no one was tracking which gun it was so they assumed it was all of them. Misinformation at its best.
C4
Thanks Grant.... the voice, "keyboard" of reason!!
I think that's dead on, & it never ceases to amuse me. I, for whatever it is worth, could care less what anyone thinks about my choice of firearm, automobile, motorcycle, etc. I don't get my self identity or sense of self worth through those things. But boy-oh-boy, there are people all over the internet forums (not just this one) that will not hesitate to "pick up arms" & defend their favorite brand of whatever. Life is too short to worry about such things!
You guys crack me up... come into a thread, make false accusations, then call us fanboys for sticking up for what we know are facts...
Or not even sticking up for, but questioning sources of your so called facts that have no basis of truth.. when in fact it is you that have your favorite weapon that can only be deemed better by lowering the quality of others favorite weapon. It is you that comes across as fanboys.... justifying your favorite brand of whatever!!- Joined
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The issue may be more than the gun
I am a member of a large (2500 member) Texas agency which carries the M&P 40. We also authorize carry for plain clothes, covert and off-duty of the M &P 40 C and Shield 40. We had carried Glock M22s for the last 20 years. I agree with some of the posts here that there are issues, but they are mostly issues attributable to the end user, i.e., the "trigger puller". We had a few rusted slides when we started issuing the M&P but then due to our proximity to the Gulf Coast, we also had issues with Glocks which rusted shut due to salt water exposure when guys dumped their guns in their boat wells for their vacation weekend, again "end user issue". Clue: they sell gun oil and cleaning kits at Wal-Mart and weapons maintenance is part of the training required for the LE license. DPS was shooting a 147 grain load in the M&P 9 and further, the Texas Tribune article indicated that these were "loaners" from S&W. I have already heard that there may be a political issue here from someone within the organization that wishes to stick with the Sig pistol. That was also suggested in a couple of the comments. As a 20 year LEO I will tell you that even now there are guys on the qualification course that have FTE/Type 1/Type 2 malfunctions with other major name handguns and it usually boils down to a training or maintenance issue and not a problem with the gun itself. The Texas Tribune article further states that DPS has not been able to duplicate the issues reported by the trainees. S&W addressed minor issues with our guns, which is expected when you issue large numbers of guns. People in the know are aware that most officers shoot their service guns only at their annual in-service qualification. Real shooters are the exception. I have 4 M&Ps, including the Walther .22 and Shield and only came across the roll pin "walk" issue in the .22 LR after about 2000 rounds and this was easily corrected. These guns are flat out shooting beasts, but I also maintain the guns which I stake my life on. The two Glocks I have left are my previous issue duty guns which are heirlooms for my kids and have been relegated to safe queen status. When we issued Glocks, we had issues with the slide rails being ripped out of the frame due to the hot Speer 155 gr. 40 S&W loads we shoot. Glock corrected those issues for us because they are a responsive manufacturer as well. As a competitive shooter and LEO who is on the range weekly - my S&Ws get worked out, and they just plain work. If they didn't I'd definitely have a different opinion here. When we went from Glock to S&W we tested guns from several manufacturers over the course of about a year, both Glock and S&W met the grade, with the Springfield XD in the running also. S&W won out because it was just plain easier for the rank and file to shoot better qualification scores with it. Hopefully the issue will be decided on facts and the best handgun be chosen, not someone in the chain throwing a tantrum because they are resistant to change (which is the usual response in the LE field).
I am a member of a large (2500 member) Texas agency which carries the M&P 40. We also authorize carry for plain clothes, covert and off-duty of the M &P 40 C and Shield 40. We had carried Glock M22s for the last 20 years. I agree with some of the posts here that there are issues, but they are mostly issues attributable to the end user, i.e., the "trigger puller". We had a few rusted slides when we started issuing the M&P but then due to our proximity to the Gulf Coast, we also had issues with Glocks which rusted shut due to salt water exposure when guys dumped their guns in their boat wells for their vacation weekend, again "end user issue". Clue: they sell gun oil and cleaning kits at Wal-Mart and weapons maintenance is part of the training required for the LE license. DPS was shooting a 147 grain load in the M&P 9 and further, the Texas Tribune article indicated that these were "loaners" from S&W. I have already heard that there may be a political issue here from someone within the organization that wishes to stick with the Sig pistol. That was also suggested in a couple of the comments. As a 20 year LEO I will tell you that even now there are guys on the qualification course that have FTE/Type 1/Type 2 malfunctions with other major name handguns and it usually boils down to a training or maintenance issue and not a problem with the gun itself. The Texas Tribune article further states that DPS has not been able to duplicate the issues reported by the trainees. S&W addressed minor issues with our guns, which is expected when you issue large numbers of guns. People in the know are aware that most officers shoot their service guns only at their annual in-service qualification. Real shooters are the exception. I have 4 M&Ps, including the Walther .22 and Shield and only came across the roll pin "walk" issue in the .22 LR after about 2000 rounds and this was easily corrected. These guns are flat out shooting beasts, but I also maintain the guns which I stake my life on. The two Glocks I have left are my previous issue duty guns which are heirlooms for my kids and have been relegated to safe queen status. When we issued Glocks, we had issues with the slide rails being ripped out of the frame due to the hot Speer 155 gr. 40 S&W loads we shoot. Glock corrected those issues for us because they are a responsive manufacturer as well. As a competitive shooter and LEO who is on the range weekly - my S&Ws get worked out, and they just plain work. If they didn't I'd definitely have a different opinion here. When we went from Glock to S&W we tested guns from several manufacturers over the course of about a year, both Glock and S&W met the grade, with the Springfield XD in the running also. S&W won out because it was just plain easier for the rank and file to shoot better qualification scores with it. Hopefully the issue will be decided on facts and the best handgun be chosen, not someone in the chain throwing a tantrum because they are resistant to change (which is the usual response in the LE field).
OP
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
You guys crack me up... come into a thread, make false accusations, then call us fanboys for sticking up for what we know are facts...
And exactly where did I or anyone else do that?
It is you and a few others who tend to not want to hear that there may be a problem with your chosen weapon!
If as said above Smith did send "loaners" for T&E, then why did they send enough for an entire recruit class? It was my understanding that DPS was switching entirely too the M&P9 with this class. All the vets could either go to said M&P or keep there current SIG.
In the end no weapon system is perfect, there's lemons in every maker. I own an M&P357 and it's been working very well, and is awaiting a new recoil spring as it's hit 4500 rounds, with no failures. So as you can tell I have an interest into what happened down in Texas, North Carolina, and New Mexico.
Have another cookie, and remember its just a tool.
Dale
And exactly where did I or anyone else do that?
It is you and a few others who tend to not want to hear that there may be a problem with your chosen weapon!
If as said above Smith did send "loaners" for T&E, then why did they send enough for an entire recruit class? It was my understanding that DPS was switching entirely too the M&P9 with this class. All the vets could either go to said M&P or keep there current SIG.
In the end no weapon system is perfect, there's lemons in every maker. I own an M&P357 and it's been working very well, and is awaiting a new recoil spring as it's hit 4500 rounds, with no failures. So as you can tell I have an interest into what happened down in Texas, North Carolina, and New Mexico.
Have another cookie, and remember its just a tool.
Dale
I like cookies, with my milk.... looks like you only got koolaid.. and I don't drink no stinkin koolaid. You've been minimized.... you are invalid ,,, you're just a guy looking for attention... you'll get no more from me.. there is no meat with your potatoes..
The malcontents/bashers got cut off in the 1980-Present revolver section, thank you Lee, and seem to have found fertile ground in the semi-auto sections. 
I don't care what you choose to own, but this constant theme in the semi-auto sections is getting old. Yeah, I know, I don't have to read the threads, but they're everywhere. "The Shield sucks, blah blah, the M&P is garbage, blah blah. The 3rd Gen's are the cat's meow and I'll never buy another Smith semi-auto again. The company sucks, blah blah." Really?
Forum member fastbolt nails it every time, much to the chagrin of many. It's great seeing them squirm 
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...97-just-back-indy-nra-show.html#post137869861
Looks like the company is doing very well without your money.
You can't handle the truth! (Jack Nicholson) - YouTube
I don't care what you choose to own, but this constant theme in the semi-auto sections is getting old. Yeah, I know, I don't have to read the threads, but they're everywhere. "The Shield sucks, blah blah, the M&P is garbage, blah blah. The 3rd Gen's are the cat's meow and I'll never buy another Smith semi-auto again. The company sucks, blah blah." Really?
Forum member fastbolt nails it every time, much to the chagrin of many.
It's great seeing them squirm http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...97-just-back-indy-nra-show.html#post137869861
Looks like the company is doing very well without your money.
You can't handle the truth! (Jack Nicholson) - YouTube
Last edited:
OP
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
Yeah, right, whatever. You got yours and I got mine.
And don't worry the pain will go away after awhile. Just use the ointment.
Dale
And don't worry the pain will go away after awhile. Just use the ointment.
Dale
Yeah, right, whatever. You got yours and I got mine.
And don't worry the pain will go away after awhile. Just use the ointment.
Dale
No pain here whatsoever .... I'm happy with what I got... keep your ointment... cause I don't need none!!
OP
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
No pain here whatsoever .... I'm happy with what I got... keep your ointment... cause I don't need none!!
You seem confused. A trip to the bath house will relieve your stress.
S&W
S&W M&P Pistols are some of the best on the market. As the SR Armorer for a large DOS Agency we issue a large variety of weapons. We have had issues with some at some point. Almost all issues were with the operator. With 9MM pistols some manufactures are making 9MM ball practice ammunition that are down loaded to barely make the pistol function. All European ammunition is loaded hotter than Winchester white box and other practice ammo. They stated that they could not duplicate the malfunctions. I own a S&W M&P 9MM and 40 Full size. They are as good or better than Glock pistols.
S&W M&P Pistols are some of the best on the market. As the SR Armorer for a large DOS Agency we issue a large variety of weapons. We have had issues with some at some point. Almost all issues were with the operator. With 9MM pistols some manufactures are making 9MM ball practice ammunition that are down loaded to barely make the pistol function. All European ammunition is loaded hotter than Winchester white box and other practice ammo. They stated that they could not duplicate the malfunctions. I own a S&W M&P 9MM and 40 Full size. They are as good or better than Glock pistols.
You guys crack me up... come into a thread, make false accusations, then call us fanboys for sticking up for what we know are facts...
I can see you doing this...
You can't handle the truth! (Jack Nicholson) - YouTube
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