The Colt Single Action Army in combat

[David LaPell]

When was the latest that anyone may have recalled reading our hearing about the Colt Single Action Army in combat? The latest I have heard was of course George Patton in 1916 when chasing Julio Cardenas, Pancho Villa's second in command. Patton carried his .45 Colt in WWII but he never did use in then in any combat. I was just wondering if anyone used it anyone later on.

 

[Ron H.]

When was the latest that anyone may have recalled reading our hearing about the Colt Single Action Army in combat? The latest I have heard was of course George Patton in 1916 when chasing Julio Cardenas, Pancho Villa's second in command. Patton carried his .45 Colt in WWII but he never did use in then in any combat. I was just wondering if anyone used it anyone later on.

Sir, I've read of a Colt SAA being used in combat on Iwo Jima. I think it was in Richard F. Newcomb's "Iwo Jima," but I'm not certain on that.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[Old 44 Guy]

Don't know about combat but the old Peace Maker would work about anytime you needed it. Mud, dirty, wet, dry didn't seem to matter.

 

[john traveler]

The late, great, Colonel Jeff Cooper wrote that he carried and used a Colt Single Action Army .45 during the WWII USMC pacific island campaigns.

 

[mkk41]

Officially issued or unofficially carried? I don't doubt some privately owned guns were carried in WWII.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

There weren't that many first generation .357's but some were sent to England to help them out during WW2. I think some .45's too but I'm not sure. Besides Patton, General Wainwright carried his personal Colt SAA. It was a blue/casehardened .45 with a 4 3/4" barrel and a lanyard ring. It's pretty trashed now because it was wrapped in an oily rag and stuck in a tree in Mindanao when Wainwright was captured and put in a Japanese prison camp. He retrieved it later. Now it's in a military museum somewhere.

 

[Texas Star]

The late, great, Colonel Jeff Cooper wrote that he carried and used a Colt Single Action Army .45 during the WWII USMC pacific island campaigns.

Cooper wrote to me that he used this gun, which had adjustable sights and stag grips, to kill a Jap in the war. Barrel length was 5.5 inches.
The Jap was on a log, as I recall, and the .45 bullet blew him over backward. Jeff said that he had meant to shoot twice, but the first shot did the job so well that he held off firing again.

(Cooper also killed two other men in later events, but used a .45 auto. This was well after WW II.)

I'm pretty sure that some of these guns were carried in the Vietnam war, very unofficially. Now, the enforcement of rules about not carrying private handguns is severe, and few will be encountered.

Charles Askins used a Colt New Service in WW II. I think the trigger guard was cut out, and I believe it was a .38 Special.

Colt SAA revolvers were definitely sent to Britain in 1940, but I think they all went to the Home Guard. I recall reading a book where the author said that he awaited the expected German invasion with a "Pony Colt:" and very few cartridges. I doubt that any of these donated guns saw action.

Patton shot an Italian mule with his.

T-Star

 

[Tam 3]

Cooper wrote that he got rid of the SAA as soon as possible after trying ota reload under fire.

Regards,

Tam 3

 

[dmar]

Cooper wrote that he got rid of the SAA as soon as possible after trying ota reload under fire.

Regards,

Tam 3

That is definitely the fly in the ointment for the SAAs in modern day combat...

 

[mgjohn]

Got a I was in combat book on Vietnam. Has a pic in it of a US GI wearing a western rig with a Colt single action in it.

will look and see if I can fine the book and post the tital.

 

[calmex]

In Donald R. Burgett's book "Currahee" he mentions seeing an American Paratrooper run into a room and shoot a German Soldier standing atop a stairway using a Cowboy Revolver with a long barrel, and watching the German tumble on down the stairs. Probably a Peacemaker.

Incidently, if you have not read "Currahee", the Band of Brothers scene of Lt. Meehan's plane going down in flames and the burning men jumping out of it on the way down was taken directly from Burgett's description of the event, standing in the doorway of the C-47 just off to the side of Meehan's. "Currahee" was first printed as "Night Drop over Normandy" in around 1967 or so and is not one of the modern "Band of Brothers" knock-offs.

My father, who passed away in 1994, and a Normandy Veteran himself, always said that Burgett's book was one of his favourites. He had nothing but total respect for the American Paratroopers.

I remember once, he told someone gruffly: "I was at Normandy. I don't have to take my hat off for anyone!" Then he paused for a second, and added, "Well, except maybe for those boys who jumped in the night before."

 

[Muley Gil]

"Charles Askins used a Colt New Service in WW II. I think the trigger guard was cut out, and I believe it was a .38 Special."

IIRC, the good colonel's New Service was a .44-40.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

"Charles Askins used a Colt New Service in WW II. I think the trigger guard was cut out, and I believe it was a .38 Special."

IIRC, the good colonel's New Service was a .44-40.

Muley Gil, with all the due respect I put towards your expertise, I do believe his WW11 New Service was the triggerguardless .38 special. It's featured in a great full color layout in R.L. Wilson's Colt book and I think Askins uses it's use in the war to defend the .38 Special in his book Handguns and Revolvers. But I do remember reading about him using a N.S. 44-40 as a Border Patrolman and him shooting a contrabandnista with it as well as a train hopping hobo who was beating his partner to death, which he described in very colorful detail. Why he thought a four ton .38 Special was better than a .45 ACP, or 44-40 while killing Germans (at least one) with his New Service is hard to figure.

 

[walnutred]

Dad mentioned seeing a SAA carried by a Marine pilot in the Pacific during WW2. He said that once in theater no one seemed to care what you carried and it was not that unusual for people to have sidearms mailed from home.

 

[Texas Star]

Muley Gil, with all the due respect I put towards your expertise, I do believe his WW11 New Service was the triggerguardless .38 special. It's featured in a great full color layout in R.L. Wilson's Colt book and I think Askins uses it's use in the war to defend the .38 Special in his book Handguns and Revolvers. But I do remember reading about him using a N.S. 44-40 as a Border Patrolman and him shooting a contrabandnista with it as well as a train hopping hobo who was beating his partner to death, which he described in very colorful detail. Why he thought a four ton .38 Special was better than a .45 ACP, or 44-40 while killing Germans (at least one) with his New Service is hard to figure.

Because of ammo supply alone, the .44-40 seems an unlikely choice. And Askins had once been the Border Patrol marksmanship instructor. He selected the New Service .38 over the Official Police, maybe because it made a heavier club. Barrel length was 4.5 inches.

He told me in person that he chose a Colt product because he didn't like the S&W marketing people, who he thought were elitist in their attitude. Otherwise, he might have selected the S&W .38-44 HD. He did personally have to turn the barrels of most of those Colts slightly to get them hitting on target. We didn't discuss the Colts being much more likely to go out-of-time, requiring many more hours in the armory, being serviced. That eventually spelled doom for Colt revolvers in law enforcement. The issue of the sights not being "on" was another problem.

As an aside, Jack O'Connor was treated rudely by the Remington PR people in the 1940's and that was one of several reasons why he preferred to promote Winchester products. Basic quality and more traditional design was another.

T-Star

 

[COULT D]

Lt. General Jonathan Wainwright who led US forces on Battaan and Corregidor Island after General MacArthur was ordered to Australia during the early days of WWII. General Wainwright carried a personally owned a 4 3/4 Colt SAA.
Before he surrendered he wrapped the sidearm in oil soaked rags and placed it in a hole in a Banyan Tree.
Surviving the war the gun was recovered from the tree in suprisingly good condition. Four years in a jungle climate it should have been rusted completely.
The gun was (maybe still is) on display at the musem at West Point.

 

[stantheman86]

This same topic is going on over on the Ruger forum, just thought I would add there's some good info over there about Ruger Blackhawks being used quite a bit as "self issued" sidearms in Vietnam, including some links and info about pictures of guys in Vietnam carrying them.

Maybe not Colt SAA's, but the Blackhawks are loosely based on the SAA and I was pretty interested to hear about guys carrying single action .357's and .44's in Vietnam.

I would bet Vietnam was the last confict where things were "loose" and no one much really cared about what guys had sent from home or brought with them. As long as you maintained your "issue" weapon, M16, M60 etc. I don't think a CO or senior NCO was going to care if a guy had a revolver that came in a care package stuffed in his belt.

During my time overseas in Iraq, from 2007-08 the closest I came to a "sidearm" was a CZ70 .32 ACP I found in a known insurgent's house, hidden in a bookshelf. I stuffed it inside my IBA, in the flap that held the kevlar, and kept it hidden there and carried it for like 2 weeks on missions without telling anyone......and then decided the odds of me needing a little .32 pop gun to defend myself did not outweigh the punishment of being caught...I don't know what would have happened if my squad leader would have found it during a PCI, probably would have told me to get rid of it but I wasn't looking to find out...so I ended up tossing it down an open sewer when no one was looking.....I later found a few more pistols, another CZ-50 or 70, I don't remember, a Tariq pistol,lots of Glock 19's, a rusted busted Hi Power but didn't take any more risks by taking any of those. One thing that stood out was I was searching a house and found a drawer full of old .38 S&W rounds.......being a"gun guy" I knew what they were and figured there was probably a Webley or Enfield revolver around somewhere, maybe even a Victory but never found it.

 

[Texas Star]

Some guys I knew who had served in Thailand in the Vietnam war said that they saw Thai cops with Ruger Blackhawks.

 

[Peter J.]

Somewhere I remember a story about a photo journalist with the Black Star press Agency who carried a .357 BlackHawk and used it to kill a couple of VC when he was out in the field with US troops.

 

[BUFF]

In Charles Askins' autobiography "UNREPENTANT SINNER", he writes of 3 different Colts he carried.

In North Africa, shortly after his arrival, he writes of using a Colt 1911 worked over by Pachmayr, shooting camels, sheep and pigs, as well as a good many Arabs engaged in planting land mines and petty thievery.

As the Army entered Germany, he used a Colt New Service in .38 Special with a King raised ventilated rib, a red ivory front sight post and ivory grips.

I remember him writing of using another New Service in .44-40 somewhere in the book but can't find it right now.