The Forum just cost me (for a DAO 3rd Gen)...Again!!

[Redcoat3340]

So I'm innocently reading a thread about double action only 3rd gens and I learned that the DA pull isn't the same on 3rd Gen DAO as it is on the DA/SA....folks said it's sorta pre-cocked and more like S&W revolves (I have a few). I've always resisted DAO pistols but never really owned one, or shot a S&W one.

So I read some more, like what I'm reading, kinda drift over to the big gun auction site and wadda I see, a 5946TSW. Hmmmm....

I put in a modest bid figuring it would never hold up and BLAM, I win it at $350. Not a bad price, thinks I, for a 3rd Gen 9mm. Maybe not a steal, but I don't think it's outrageous.

Looks to be a Brinks gun (logo on right side) with very scruffed grips (I have one or two extra in the parts box), one mag (but I have a couple+ of 5906 mags), and it needs a good cleaning. I hope that's it. (Oh, night sights are dead, but that's not a deal breaker.) Couldn't see anything else alarming.

I was going to have a gun or so worked on (trigger, smoothing out, etc) with about the same as this gun cost...but I was sidetracked by all those who really, really like DAO 3rd Gens, so that project gets postponed.

Here's a pic.

And I will probably have a member here do a bit of work on this one as it probably will need it.

I gotta stop reading stuff here! It keeps costing me. (And I thank everyone for their postings.)

 

[stansdds]

My 6946 has that same trigger system. It's length and weight of pull are almost identical to that of my 640-1 revolver. I have found I am just as accurate in shooting the 6946 as I am with my 6906, so the DAO trigger is not an impediment.

 

[cherrypointmarine]

I have a NYPD 5946 that I bought off a member . I'm not a fan of DAO pistols but I bought this one because of it's history . I've found that while I don't hate them anymore , they aren't as bad as I remember them . I now have a few others and I don't not buy them just because they are DAO .

 

[mbliss57]

I bought the same Brinks stamped 5946TSW this year too. Its a bit of a project gun as it needs some TLC like yours. But at that price point it was hard to say no. It's quite functional just not up to standard with my other 3rd gen pistols.

 

[GaryS]

We've succeeded in pulling another victim down the 3rd Gen rabbit hole!

Congratulations on a nice pick up. $350.00 isn't a bad price for that gun.

If it were mine, I'd give it a good cleaning and lube, replace the recoil spring, put on some grips that don't look like they went down a garbage disposal, and then take it to the range.

If those are Trijicon night sites, I'd contact them and fill out a RMA. They will re lamp all three tubes and ship them back to you for just under $60.00. I did that with a CS9 I bought a couple of years ago.

My guess is that is a gun that was carried a LOT, but hardly ever shot. Internally, it's likely to be in really good shape.

 

[firefighterjohn]

That's a great story RedCoat...a little education can be expensive, but look what you GOT for your learnin'

Seen a few more of the 3rd Gen's at the few gun shows and LGS around here. They are starting to go up in price as well.

 

[S&W59]

I have a 4053 and a 4586, not a fan of the DAO but I'm not looking to get rid of them either. One's a former cop gun from the local PD and the other is a very rare bird and rounds out my S&W collection. Hold onto it if you like it, vintage S&W's are gaining a following among collectors.

 

[mikerjf]

S&W59, how would you contrast them to a J frame double action?

I've been thinking about a 4053 myself.

 

[Jon651]

I picked up a Brinks marked 4046TSW a few years back. New recoil springs, new Hogue grip and a LOT of cleaning and it looks and shoots like new. On a lark I had a member here make a stainless steel recoil spring rod for it as well - which it didn't need but I was "in the mood". My 4046TSW is now my dedicated truck gun.

Third gen S&W semi-autos are tough guns and I love them. $350 is a very reasonable price, even considering today's mess of crazy prices and what I paid for mine long before this madness. Once cleaned up and tuned you should get a lot of mileage out of your new acquisition. Enjoy!

 

[quikdraw67]

You can blame me for the DAO 3rd Generation posts lately.

My waiting for my 5946 NOS to come in, hopefully by Saturday.

 

[JohnHL]

Congrats on your new to you 5946TSW.

Please keep in mind that there are three levels of S&W DAO.

The first was the base model (non-TSW) style with the extended frame and slide to shroud the "partially cocked" hammer.
Also, the early guns were shipped with a lighter mainspring (trigger spring) that made for a very nice "DAO" pull.

The next is the TSW DAO style that you have.
S&W designed these models to use the standard length slide and frame.
Consequently, the hammer is not nearly as "partially cocked" as it is on the base model DAO pistols.
Add to that the return to the "full power" mainspring, same as in the TDA (DA/SA) pistols, and you will discover that the TSW DAO trigger pull is longer and heavier than the early base model DAO pistols.

On a positive note, the TSW pistols are very easily convertible between TDA and DAO. (Just four parts.)

The third DAO style is the Chiefs Special ("D" models) and 3914DAO (NYPD) "second strike" design in that the single action notch is deleted from the hammer and it is full length, TDA style double action trigger pull, first pull and every pull.

These are obviously the longest and hardest trigger pull.

I've got all three styles, and while "different", I don't think any of them truly resembles the DA pull of my 29 or 629, but the first, early style comes the closest.

John

 

[Redcoat3340]

JohnHL: Does that mean (as I think it does) that if I put in a lighter mainspring [hammer spring] I can lighten the DA pull? Sorta like the D-spring trick with Beretta?

What weight would you suggest for a lighter mainspring to decrease trigger pull without getting light strikes? 18 lbs? 17?

I've replaced hammer springs in a couple of my regular DA/SA Smiths. And I don't think I want to convert this DAO to DA/SA....I have a 5906 already and doing the conversion would just essentially duplicate that gun. Can't see any advantage to doing a change, or am I missing something.

And thank you for that great explanation of Smith DAs. I have 3 other TSWs, too bad they didn't do the original DAO in a TSW, best of both worlds.

 

[JohnHL]

JohnHL: Does that mean (as I think it does) that if I put in a lighter mainspring [hammer spring] I can lighten the DA pull? Sorta like the D-spring trick with Beretta?

Yes.

What weight would you suggest for a lighter mainspring to decrease trigger pull without getting light strikes? 18 lbs? 17?

Here's where it gets a little tricky...

A lightened mainspring may cause misfires with some ammo because of insufficiently hard primer strikes.

So choose your ammo, get some Wolff springs, and try it at the range.

BTW, as I mentioned, the TSW DAO hammer is not as "partially cocked" as the base model DAO hammer, so no matter which spring is chosen, it is still starting from a disadvantage.

I've replaced hammer springs in a couple of my regular DA/SA Smiths. And I don't think I want to convert this DAO to DA/SA....I have a 5906 already and doing the conversion would just essentially duplicate that gun. Can't see any advantage to doing a change, or am I missing something.

Other than an academic fascination (or just because we can) there is probably not a great advantage to the collector.

I think the advantage went to S&W for the simplification in manufacturing the changes allowed.

And thank you for that great explanation of Smith DAs.

You're welcome!

I have 3 other TSWs, too bad they didn't do the original DAO in a TSW, best of both worlds.

Actually, they did (sort of...)

During what I call the "1st gen" of TSW models (typically produced and shipped during the '97-'99 time frame), identifiable by the lack of a caliber designation on the 'billboard" (i.e. "Tactical" vs "9 Tactical"), S&W did produce some DAO models with the longer slide and frame. (3953TSW, 4053TSW, 4056TSW, 4553TSW)

While these models did have the more "partially cocked" hammers than the later TSWs, by then they were using the full power main spring.

John

 

[Redcoat3340]

John, Thanks again.

 

[JohnHL]

And again, you're welcome.

John

 

[S&W59]

S&W59, how would you contrast them to a J frame double action?

I've been thinking about a 4053 myself.

I have no point of reference to compare them empirically. The trigger isn't terrible but its not a quick break like a DA/SA 5900 series.

 

[NCBeagle]

Good score. Ha. I saw that one on GB while trolling around. Gave it a second look. Nice.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

We've succeeded in pulling another victim down the 3rd Gen rabbit hole!

And it's a DEEP DARK hole.

.
.

What weight would you suggest for a lighter mainspring to decrease trigger pull without getting light strikes? 18 lbs? 17?

I've tried everything from Wolff's 19# to the 17# main/hammerspring in my various 3rd Gens.

Some of which are: 3914DAO, 4056TSW, 4516-1 & 4553TSW models that currently have a 17# mainspring in.

I handload everything I shoot & I only use CCI primers, which are reportedly the hardest to ignite.

To date, I've never had an issue with FTF that was caused by a weak/under-powered mainspring.

In fact I can only remember two times, in recent history, & those were when my son was helping me prime cases using Remington primers. (We can blame either. )

That doesn't mean at some point in the future it couldn't get weak & not function reliably so preventive maintenance is paramount if it's used for CC/SD.

Also, on pistols that I reduce the mainspring weight on I conversely go up a pound or two on the recoil spring since the hammer/hammerspring initially resist the slides rearward movement after ignition, & assist the recoil spring.

.

 

[stansdds]

I have no point of reference to compare them empirically. The trigger isn't terrible but its not a quick break like a DA/SA 5900 series.

No, it isn't, but it is very much like the double action trigger on many S&W revolvers. It is shorter than the DA pull on traditional DA/SA S&W pistols. My 6946 trigger pull is very smooth, no hesitation, grit or clicks like in the DA pull on my 439.

 

[DCW]

What A Thread!

There are many things in this-here Forum for which I am thankful, but I'll not go into them right now . . . heck, maybe never! Shoot, make 'em "never."

But the discussion herein by many minds greater than my own (the latter being roughly 5 on the Saffir-Simpson scale) is just fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. I mean, did I say it was fabulous? Well, it was.

I thrive on this stuff, folks. I learned a ton in here, today, and I am just flat-out grateful for all of it.

A "Thank You" to those who contributed to the discussion just seems so inadequate but that's all I got right now.

So, Thank You for helping the brains of many. You know, kinda like the aliens from Mars in that incredibly rich and important documentary, "Mars Attacks!" and whose heads shook rapidly and exploded during exposure to Slim Whitman's phenomenal yodeling. Who woulda thunk it? I darn sure didn't thunk it.

Still, all kidding aside, this is a most excellent thread!

Later.

DC