The Great War

[OLDFED]

This coming August will mark the official date of the start of World War I, known as The Great War and the War to End all Wars. Another anniversary attributing to the foolishness of mankind and the millions, living or dead, who served their countries in their armed services or as innocent victims of politicians; and as President Eisenhower stated...The Military-Industrial Complex. Bless Them All!

For Barone...I lament the waste of lives and what those lives could have been and meant. Those who serve in any capacity to build and protect, have my sincere admiration.

 

[Comrad]

"War has never solved anything.....Except for ending slavery, fascism, Nazism, communism and creating the United States."

 

[bgrone]

Clarification

This coming August will mark the official date of the start of World War I, known as The Great War and the War to End all Wars. Another anniversary attributing to the foolishness of mankind and the millions, living or dead, who served their countries in their armed services or as innocent victims of politicians; and as President Eisenhower stated...The Military-Industrial Complex. Bless Them All!

It's unclear in your wording, but I'm sure you aren't implying that those who gave their lives for their countries were the foolish ones .

Jim in Iowa

 

[wbraswell]

The Great War should be called the Worst War. It solved nothing. It amounted to a family squabble among Victoria's grandkids, and millions died for it. I missed the war that ended Communism, that was Capitalism, wasn't it?

 

[lrb1200]

My Grandfather who served in WW1 attached to artillery, and cavalry, and was proud of it.
And taught me a lot about life, growing up. Reality without politics.

 

[steveno]

I think the treaty that ended WW1 probably helped create hitler's rise to power. of the over 400 clauses in the treaty most of them were to punish Germany. whether or not that was right I don't know but it gave him something to feed on and get the German people to listen and follow him.

 

[the ringo kid]

It's unclear in your wording, but I'm sure you aren't implying that those who gave their lives for their countries were the foolish ones .

Jim in Iowa

Sorry but, im scratching my head on this one. His post is chrystal clear to me.

 

[shouldazagged]

If you haven't already, read Barbara Tuchman's The Guns Of August.

I don't think there can be any doubt that the ruinously punitive provisions of the Treaty of Versailles created a climate of rage and discontent in Germany that allowed Hitler and others to flourish.

History might have been vastly different if the Allies had been less vindictive in victory. And less foolishly convinced they were seeing that Germany would never trouble Europe again.

I did say might have been.

 

[the ringo kid]

Lets talk a little about Alvin C. York: Press photo of the movie:

Cant find what I wrote about him so will try to rewrite his stuff later. However, I can share a tad bit about: Sergeant Joyce Kilmer:

Poet: Soldier: Sergeant Joyce Kilmer of the All American Infantry Division. Joyce Kilmer was from the predominant Irish Regiment known as the Fighting 69th, which was made more famous by the excellent James Cagney, Dennis Morgan, Alan Hale Sr and Pat O'Brien movie: The Fighting 69th. The Fighting 69th New York Regiment came together and along with other units including the famed: 4th Alabama Infantry Regiment, both had their roots (in opposing Armies) dating back to the U.S. Civil War. The 4th Alabama was in the: Army of the Confederate States of America while the: 69th New York Irish Regiment was in the: Union Army. During the Civil War and in particular, during the Battle of Mary's Heights the 4th Alabama literally "shot the pants off of the 69th New York and in respect for the New Yorkers, the men of the 4th, stood up and gave them cheers respecting those men's bravery in battle.

Jeffrey Lynn as Sgt. Joyce Kilmer in: Sergeant York:

Sergeant William T. Shemin--recipient of the Distinguished Service Cross--and SHOULD have received the Medal of Honor, for his actions.

Sergeant William Shemin. Sergeant Shemin was a Jewish-American who fought in France in WWI, and who would be a recipient of the: Distinguished Service Cross. Shemin was not put in for an earned Medal of Honor most likely because of the discrimination that was shown towards Soldiers at that time, who were of the Jewish persuasion. Currently there is a push by his Daughter-to get him awarded his Medal of Honor-a push I fully support. Possible Medal of Honor for Sergeant Shemin. Sergeant Shemin defied very heavy German Machine gun and rifle fire to sprint across a battlefield and pull wounded comrades back to safty to his Platoon Trench. With all of his platoons senior leaders either killed or wounded, Shemin took over command and led it to safety even after a bullet entered his helmet and lodged behind his left ear. On a hot day in August 1918, he and his platoon were fighting a battle near a river in Burgundy. One of his superiors, Captain Rubert Purdon, later wrote in support of him to get the Medal of Honor. The Captain said: "With the most utter disregard for his own safety, (Shemin) sprung from his position in his platoon trench, dashed out across the open in full sight of the Germans-who opened and maintained a furious machine gun and rifle fire." Shemin didnt stop there. Casualties were heavy. Many senior platoon leaders were killed and wounded, so the young Sergeant, led the group out of harms way over the next three days. Along the way, a German bullet hit him in the head, went through his helmet, and lodged behind his left ear. Shemin eventually collapsed and was hospitalized for three months. The wound left him deaf in that ear. Shemin was awarded the: Distinguished Service Cross. He passed away in 1973-having been pleased at having received that high decoration.

 

[Frizzman]

Thousands of young men killed, crippled and mentally wrecked...What was accomplished by that? My mother's uncle was one of those young men. He was a artillery officer. He was the only survivor of his battery and spent three days under bodies, playing dead to avoid a bayonet in the chest. He came back severely "shell shocked" and was never truly sane...There is no question that the war and its aftermath enabled the rise of the NAZI Party and part two of that European civil war...All nations believe God is on their side. The best tribute to all those dead and wounded young people is to reserve war for only when there is no other choice for our survival as a nation.

 

[bobelk99]

"War has never solved anything.....Except for ending slavery, fascism, Nazism, communism and creating the United States."

No one ever said I was the sharpest tack in the box.

I never really considered what you posted. You are 100% in the right. That was probably the best 'short post' I can remember.

Thanks for a point to ponder.

 

[RaceBannon]

While I'm not defending the Treaty of Vesailles, I don't think many people are aware of the fact that it was a response to the Treaty of Frankfurt that was imposed on the French after their defeat by the German states in the 1870's. The French were acting on a forty year grudge.

The steep demands that the Germans placed on France were the result of the fifty year grudge that they held because of the French aggression under Napoleon.

The world wars were a long time in the making.

 

[kaaskop49]

And what is truly amazing about WWI, which no one has mentioned, is that many of the rulers of the different nations were related! I remember a documentary in which Lord Louis Mountbatten referred to Czar Nicholas as "Uncle Nicky."

 

[arjay]

My grandfather fought in WWI.He died at 44 at the beginning of the 2nd war ,leaving a widow and 3 young kids.

 

[Kinman]

I'm in the process of reading the best book on WWI I have ever read. The First World War by John Keegan, I highly recommend it. I had never heard of the atrocities committed by the Germans when they attacked Belgium and am learning things I had never heard of from anyone. Many of us only have a "Hollywood" understanding of WWI and the heroic efforts by our soldiers like Sgt. York. I have read that Adolf Hitler swore vengeance before WWI was even over and issued an edict that would become fact in later years. I always thought it was the advent of the machine gun that made WWI as bloody as it was but in truth the one thing we take for granted that could have eliminated the casualities is the simple radio, they had no secure way of sending messages quickly.

 

[RaceBannon]

I haven't read that one, but Keegan was great.

 

[reddogge]

Keegan's book is good. Ironically I just finished rereading my copy of "The Great War and the Shaping of the 20th Century" the companion book the long ago PBS series was based on. It's good to revisit that horrible war occaisionally.

 

[finesse_r]

"War has never solved anything.....Except for ending slavery, fascism, Nazism, communism and creating the United States."

Slavery was a dying institution and anyone that thinks that the Civil War was worth speeding that up by 10 years is not thinking at all. It had already been abolished in most of Europe and would have soon in the USA also. Today however, it is alive and well in Africa, with open slave markets still functioning. In fact that war laid the foundations for future economic enslavement of our entire nation.

Communism was saved at the expense of Fascism in WWII and today Communism has all but taken over Europe and the USA, as well as Canada, New Zealand, and Australia. Communism is alive and thriving like no other ism in the world. We lost the cold war and the wall came down because the communist no longer needed it. All communism did was stop calling itself communism. Today it is call progressive, socialism, and moderation, multiculturalism, globalism, and a dozen or so other new names, but it is communism all the same.

War did create the USA, but for how long will it last due in part to all the wars since then.

The war on drugs increased drug usage.
The war on poverty increased poverty.
The war or terrorism is increasing terrorism.

War is the justification for the massive expenditures of tax money, and the basis for governments to increase their power over their citizens. War is easily the greatest evil on this planet.

 

[the ringo kid]

I'm in the process of reading the best book on WWI I have ever read. The First World War by John Keegan, I highly recommend it. I had never heard of the atrocities committed by the Germans when they attacked Belgium and am learning things I had never heard of from anyone. Many of us only have a "Hollywood" understanding of WWI and the heroic efforts by our soldiers like Sgt. York. I have read that Adolf Hitler swore vengeance before WWI was even over and issued an edict that would become fact in later years. I always thought it was the advent of the machine gun that made WWI as bloody as it was but in truth the one thing we take for granted that could have eliminated the casualities is the simple radio, they had no secure way of sending messages quickly.

You have to be very careful about Keegans books. He had some disinformation in some of his WWII stuff. I cant remember what off hand? but, maybe his WWI stuff is more accurate?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

You talk of 40 and 50 year old grudges in France and Germany; in the Balkans where the first shots of WWI were fired, they are working with 800 year old grudges that people talk of as if they were last week.
I really only studied the military aspects of WW I, but I'm not convinced we joined the proper side. France and England couldn't win without us, AND if Germany won WW I, There is no rise of the Nazis. If WW II would have happened, it would have been MUCH MUCH different. Wilson's political buddies were from the Socialists of west Europe. England was our largest "Trading Partner", The Conservative Germans were #2 in trade. I'm not sure we (the U.S.) didn't sell out our values for money and a "Good Old Boy" system that spanned the Atlantic Ocean. The ethnic groups my heritage consist of are #1 German/Bavarian, #2 Irish,& #3 Scott; all three treated poorly by the English for the past 4 or 5 hundred years. (So maybe I'm just sour) but much of the wealth of German and Irish Americans was invested in German War Bonds,(way out sold all others including US, until we entered the war) where as the East Coast power brokers were invested in the English or selling to the English. So by siding with England, They wiped out much of the American's political opposition's funding!
ALL of my American relatives that fought in WW I were 2nd generation off the boat from Germany, But they all stayed in France, where they fell. Most of my German family fell in France as well (there are a few in the Hamburg area today), Dad's Scott linage is all but extinct due to WWI. Mom's German heritage (Maag), survived WWI but not WWII (not even the women). The three branches (2 in the US and 1 in Germany)of my Namesake family consisted of 4 or 5 Thousand in the late 1800's. Today the branch that were religious Pacifists number about 1200, and the other 2 combined number less than 100 (this is all of the 4 generations alive today). Ivan