The guy next to you is an ATF Agent

[dd698]

Last night after we finished shooting we were sitting around the bar and I asked if anybody knew that we had an ATF Agent living in one of our small communities. Everybody started laughing at me and one guy quipped that I had been shooting with him all winter. Suprise Neil wake up and smell the Folgers. He seems to be a nice guy,but I have heard horror stories about that Agency including Texas and Ruby Ridge.

 

[dd698]

Last night after we finished shooting we were sitting around the bar and I asked if anybody knew that we had an ATF Agent living in one of our small communities. Everybody started laughing at me and one guy quipped that I had been shooting with him all winter. Suprise Neil wake up and smell the Folgers. He seems to be a nice guy,but I have heard horror stories about that Agency including Texas and Ruby Ridge.

 

[Firehouse]

In my area, the local agent seems to be a sensible guy. It's the ones in the division field offices that don't impress me. I met a few at a recent seminar. They are hardcore. Unnerving would be an understatement.

 

[NFrameFred]

Good and bad as in all fields. The younger ones that I've encountered, unfortunately, seem to be "indoctrinated" to view firearms in the hands of civilians as "suspect" or "evil". Then I've met some older guys who were very down to earth and had a good view of the job.

Bottom line, they work for a government agency whose agenda depends on the politics in power at the moment. Some of you reading this don't seem to remember that . . . .

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by Firehouse Firearms:
In my area, the local agent seems to be a sensible guy. It's the ones in the division field offices that don't impress me. I met a few at a recent seminar. They are hardcore. Unnerving would be an understatement.

I don't care to associate with someone who willingly belongs to a Federal agency which produced an official training video on how to lie under oath.

 

[Firehouse]

I don't care to associate with someone who willingly belongs to a Federal agency which produced an official training video on how to lie under oath.

Then don't. I don't. I'm not advocating that. He's not my buddy. My point was not all ATF agents are pinheads. I said my local rep seems to be a sensible guy. We don't sit around and toss back cold ones together and discuss politics. The two or three times I've interacted with my local guy he was down to earth "at the time". That doesn't mean I would openly discuss everything with him without fear of repercussions. I just don't wear a tin foil hat "all" of the time.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by Firehouse Firearms:

I don't care to associate with someone who willingly belongs to a Federal agency which produced an official training video on how to lie under oath.

Then don't. I don't. I'm not advocating that. He's not my buddy. My point was not all ATF agents are pinheads. Just most. I said my local rep seems to be a sensible guy. We don't sit around and toss back cold ones together and discuss politics. The two or three times I've interacted with my local guy he was down to earth "at the time". That doesn't mean I would openly discuss everything with him without fear of repercussions. I just don't wear a tin foil hat "all" of the time.

I'm not telling you what to do. I'm telling you what I'd do and not do.

 

[m1gunner]

I ran into our local BATFY at a local gunshow. He was dressed like a gangbanger, except wrong shoes, and his english was too good. He asked if I wanted to sell what I was carrying....I declined.

Didn't know he was an agent till I saw him a month later on the evening news talking about their latest raid, or whatever.

 

[Amici]

Originally posted by cmort666:
I don't care to associate with someone who willingly belongs to a Federal agency which produced an official training video on how to lie under oath.

Got a cite for this "official training video?"

 

[The Big D]

Originally posted by Amici:

Originally posted by cmort666:
I don't care to associate with someone who willingly belongs to a Federal agency which produced an official training video on how to lie under oath.

Got a cite for this "official training video?"

Yeah, I'd like to see the source for that statement, too.

 

[sigp220.45]

Me, too.

 

[s&wchad]

I wouldn't mind having a friend at the ATF. I could use a discount on all three!

 

[mississippi revolverman]

During my years of undercover narcotics and narcotic enforcement (State Level) Lots of people were not comfortable around us. Kind of thought it might be the "pro drug use culture"of the time or maybe they just had something to hide

 

[rburg]

Google James Jeffries. He's a former Maine Corps Col., a former Federal Prosceutor, and now in private practice specializing in 2nd A cases.

The training video, which I've never seen in person, details how they expect their agents to testify in cases relating to full auto firearms. Its designed to get them to testify there are no known errors in the database of class 3 firearms. Of course any government database is full of errors (like most databases). It tries to close the door on the argument that maybe the government has made mistakes from time to time.

Jeffries has written a number of articles on how to answer questions (don't) and react to a BATFE visit. Its good reading, and it also applies to any instance a Federal Officer is questioning you. Basically, his advice is to say nothing. Name, rank, and serial number only. Be nice, be polite, but offer no useful information. If they have a search warrant, leave the premises, they're going to trash your home regardless. He's not a big fan of the agency, and he's given some very good examples of their abuses.

 

[sigp220.45]

So, is the video produced by a lawyer who never worked for ATF the "official training video" referenced above?

 

[Forester]

I have no dog in this fight. Just did a Google search. Here is a link to an article written by Mr. Jeffries:

http://www.atfabuse.com/atfabuse-1.html

It looks to be footnoted as to where the info and quotes come from, but I don't know how he accessed the info or if it was confirmed. Pretty salacious quotes, though.

On October 18, 1995, Thomas A. Busey, then Chief of the National Firearms Act Branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco andFirearms (hereafter "BATF") made a videotaped training presentation to BATF Headquarters personnel during a roll call training session. "Roll call training" is weekly or periodic in-house training for BATF officials -- a routine show-and-tell whereby bureaucrats learn about each other's duties and functions.

Busey's national Firearms Act Branch administers the National Firearms Act of 1934,1 the taxation and regulatory scheme governing machine guns, silencers, short-barrelled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices, etc. In his capacity of NFA Branch Chief, Busey was the official custodian of the National Firearms Registration and Transfer record (NFR&TR) mandated by 26 U.S.C. (S)5861.

(snipped)

Busey began his roll call presentation by acknowledging that "Our first and main responsibility is to make accurate entries and to maintain accuracy of the NFRTR...." Moments later Busey makes the astonishing statement that "...when we testify in court, we testify that the data base is 100% accurate. That's what we testify to, and we will always testify to that. As you probably well know, that may not be 100 percent true."

Busey then goes on for several minutes describing the types of errors which creep into the NFR&TR and then repeats his damning admission:
"So the information on the 728,000 weapons that are in the database has to be 100 percent accurate. Like I told you before, we testify in court and, of course, our certifications testify to that, too, when we're not there to testify, that we are 100 percent accurate."

 

[jag312]

Use language appropriate for the board.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by The Big D:

Originally posted by Amici:

Originally posted by cmort666:
I don't care to associate with someone who willingly belongs to a Federal agency which produced an official training video on how to lie under oath.

Got a cite for this "official training video?"

Yeah, I'd like to see the source for that statement, too.

BATFE
They created an official training video instructing agents testifying in court to state that there was a 100% accuracy rate in the NFA record keeping system, which the supervisor giving the instruction admits ON FILM, was NOT true. I believe I've seen at least parts of the video in the past.

I also recall when the [then] BATF had to come in front of Congress to explain the video. They didn't deny that it had been made. They just said it was a "misunderstanding".

Institutional perjury, organized White supremacist activity, institutional racial harassment and discrimination, corruption, the BATFE has it all.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by jag312:
Use language appropriate for the board.

 

[sigp220.45]

They created an official training video instructing agents testifying in court to state that there was a 100% accuracy rate in the NFA record keeping system, which the supervisor giving the instruction admits ON FILM, was NOT true. I believe I've seen at least parts of the video in the past.

Your link isn't to the "official training video" you referenced.

Saying it doesn't make it so.