The Magnificent .45

[sw357nm]

There is almost a cult following surrounding the legendary Model of 1917 .45 ACP revolver and its descendants.
Roy Jinks in his "History of Smith & Wesson" says "In 1950 when the factory introduced the .45 Target Model, it also updated its .45 Model of 1917 by introducing the 1950 .45 Military." This is the revolver that became the Model 22 in 1957. Supica and Nahas in the "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" add "Knowledgeable collectors report that approximately 178 were stamped with a model number from 1957 to 1963." This model was also produced in very limited numbers as the dash 1 and dash 2 versions. There apparently were no dash 3s, but the dash 4 is the recently reintroduced .45 ACP known as the Thunder Ranch model.
Here is a 4-screw Model 22 in bright blue; shipped in April 1965. I'm sure that there are other .45 aficionados here who must have some great photos of members of this wonderful family of fighting revolvers.

 

[Art Doc]

I think most folks ID 45 with Colt. Indeed, the two most popular 45 caliber cartridges have Colt in their names, the 45 ACP and 45 Colt. The 44 is most often associated with S&W.

Of course, eventually Colt made some 44s and S&W made some 45s. I currently have two.

The 45 ACP is way undersized and underpowered for the big N frame. What would be cool would be a 45 ACP case stretched to the same length as the 45 Colt and loaded for the 25 and family with a 225 grain bullet at 1,000 FPS. I think this would be well within the pressure limits for the revolver (can't go too crazy due to the thin chamber walls of those .452" bored cylinders) while maintaining the advantage of clip loading.

S&W should get together with an ammo maker to develop this cartridge. I think they should call it the "45 Saxon."

 

[Dave T]

The only S&W 45 in my safe right now is a pre-M25. I'm not going to post a picture as it is way below the standards of this forum and I've recently become convinced it is just a shooter. Since I collect shooters that doesn't bother me so much but it might some. Anyway, I've owned 25-2s before, even customized one for revolver competition (IDPA) and a couple of the under lug 625s (a 5" and a 4"). Never had a 1917 or the lovely civilian versions shown here. Would still like to have one but the condition, price and my finances never coincide.

Oh, and when I think of the 45 Colt cartridge I think of the SAA...sorry.

Dave

 

[ENGINE18]

IMHO, fixed sight N-frames are very cool. That M22 is fantastic!

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

sw357nm-
That, is a beautiful gun! I have a 25-2, which is sort of a family decendant, but there is something to be said for the simplicity in design of the original. I'm not a fan of the new version of this fine old piece. Not just because of the lock, but the front sight looks to small to me personally.


Saxon Pig-

Just an FYI- the 25's will handle the load you suggest all day long and beg for more. They are far stronger than given credit for. The weak link isn't the cylinder walls, since the cylinders will withstand far greater pressures than we are talking about here, but rather in the fact that such loads can, and do accelerate wear to the gun over saami spec stuff, due to al the small parts in a Smith.

I regularly run 255's at 1,000 fps from my 25's in .45 Colt, and they are well within the pressure limits that the factory rates 25's for (23,000 psi)

 

[BHP FAN]

I love my 1917.

 

[Art Doc]

G4F- I have to differ. It's not wear that concerns me, it's a catastrophic failure and the weak link in the S&W in this regard is the chamber wall beneath the bolt stop cut. This cut is right over the chamber and the thickness of the metal gets thin in the bigger calibers. I don't have an N frame in 45 Colt but if I did I would avoid anything resembling a warm load. JMUO

 

[fyimo]

I have a 25-2 in 45 ACP and I shoot full loads in it and hopefully it will keep shooting fine.

25-2 6.5 inch barrel with Kurac grips.

 

[DCWilson]

My only .45 is this almost mint 1917 that I bought a couple of weeks back. Haven't shot it yet, but plan to as soon as I finish working through some .38s that needed cleaning and sighting in. I should be able to offer a preliminary range report on the .45 some time in April.

I'm pretty sure there's a target .45 in my future at some point. I need to get a target .44 as well.

 

[DHENRY]

G4F- I have to differ. It's not wear that concerns me, it's a catastrophic failure and the weak link in the S&W in this regard is the chamber wall beneath the bolt stop cut. This cut is right over the chamber and the thickness of the metal gets thin in the bigger calibers. I don't have an N frame in 45 Colt but if I did I would avoid anything resembling a warm load. JMUO

Once again, some sage advice from SP.
That 'weakness', or crack, will be VERY hard to see, as it's commonly mistaken for a surface scratch.
The best opportunity to spot the crack is on a high-polish gun.
I'd hate to guess how many 45 acp's have that fault (unbeknown to the owner)
Don

 

[UltraCarry45]

I agree with G4F, I load a 240g Sierra JHC at roughly 1050 fps. This load
is in the Sierra loading manual. I have seen simular loads in Speer #4.
This is loaded in ACP brass. The AR brass is slightly slower.

I shoot this load in my Thunder Ranch.

Saxon they already made your round. It's called the 45 Winchester Magnum. Power wise it's on the level of a 44 mag.
Sierra has data for the 45 ACP revolvers
185g at 1300fps
200g at 1200fps

 

[Art Doc]

I think the 225-250 bullets at 1,000-1,100 FPS are fine. What I worry about are the guys trying to turn the 45 Colt into a Magnum with 1,400+ FPS.

I was thinking somebody made a magnum 45 ACP. The gun reamed to that length would allow loads as described above (NOT full power 45 magnums) to be used in the 25-2 while still allowing the use of standard 45 ACP.

I will look into this more.

 

[UltraCarry45]

Those loads like that are not for a Smith & Wesson. O.K. for a Ruger. That's one reason I haven't got a S&W in 45 Colt yet, I have a Ruger and I do load it hot. would hate for some of those loads to find there way into the wrong gun.

I don't even load my 29's that hot. I like 240's at 1000fps in those also.

 

[guitar1580]

Awesome guns! Mine is dated to Aug. 1918. It was my first S&W. It has great action and trigger. I love the round, and like the versatility of using moon clips, half moons, or auto rims.

I stumbled onto it while buying some antiques from an estate sale of a 97 yr old man. At the time, I didn't know what a prestigious and sought after piece it was, but I knew I was getting it dirt cheap for something from WWI era.

I got lots of extras, old tins, patches, ammo, holster, hand-turned wooden cleaning rod, and a book where he recorded whom he purchased it from back in the 1940's. I love mine, and it is what got me interested in collecting S&W's, and to ultimately become a member of the SWCA.

To the OP....great gun, and great pic!

Josh P

 

[DHENRY]

This old M 1917 Commercial went to Wolf & Klar in 1928.
Don

 

[Muley Gil]

"...and the weak link in the S&W in this regard is the chamber wall beneath the bolt stop cut. This cut is right over the chamber and the thickness of the metal gets thin in the bigger calibers."

We are all familar with Skeeter Skelton's N frame conversions to .44 Special and .45 Colt. Major George Nonte also did some experimenting with conversions. He did a few M28s that had extra deep bolt notches. On at least one M28 to .45 Colt, light was showing through the notch. Reasoning that an arch is an extremely strong structure and that the pressure would be contained by the cartridge case, the good major shot the conversion with no ill effects. However, he did not recommend this and felt that any candidates for .45 Colt conversions be checked first for the depth of the bolt notches.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

This old M 1917 Commercial went to Wolf & Klar in 1928.
Don

Man, that's another sweet gun!
I am jealous to say the least.

 

[Allen-frame]

John ,beautiful model 22. That is one fixed sight N frame I would love to own.
I have a difficult time seeing and shooting M&P sights, so do not own any shooters.

Sure am a Big fan of the N frame in 45 caliber.

I have just loaded some 45 Colt with 250 gr. Hornady XTP bullets
to 1000 f.p.s. to try for better long range accuracy from my
modern model 625s'.
I used the starting loads for the Ruger and T.C. in the Accurate Arms
loading manual.

All these are 45 cal. with the oldest being the 1950 Target shipped in 1950

Regards , Allen

 

[GF]

Allen I now know why we have such a hard time finding .45's....you have them all!

Not to off topic the topic but could you tell me about the 2 1/2 inch stainless one that's engraved?

GF

 

[aquagear]

It is a pre 22 that had adjustable sights added, not sure if done at factory or not, but it is the most accurate revolver I have ever shot