I hope I ain't got one. Stopped by one of my favorite pawnshops and found a little gem. When I first saw it in the case it appeared to be a snubbie pre-model 10. When they handed it to me the gun it was very light, so I'm thinking pre- 12. I notice there is writing on the top strap.REVOLVER,LIGHTWEIGHT, M13. The back strap has had all markings filed off. Other than that the gun looks new. The SN. is C294697. It has the same no. on the barrel, cyl. and the grips. Also the cylinder is made out of aluminum to. Four screw, fish hook hammer and a flat latch. Does this sound like the real deal to y'all? I cant find the card for the camera right now so pics will come later. Thanks, Jeff
The most faked S&W
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I would run back to that pawnshop and buy that gun.
Respectfully disagree. It would be easier to file down the backstrap a bit than to stamp the gun with marks that could easily be shown to be not correct.
John
Texas Star
US Veteran
Both of you are correct, but the alloy cylinder inclines me to think it's at least worth a second look, if not overpriced.
I personally wouldn't buy an altered/damaged gun, but this model is a real rarity, and many would buy one.
I do think a faker might file off the markings on the backstrap, to make it look as if genuine USAF marks were obliterated. That would be a clever move.
It is probably true that this model is the most faked today for purposes of counterfeiting, but I think that historically, the M&P is the most faked, or copied. Most copies have probablybeen Spanish, but South Americans and the Belgians, even Germans have copied the M&P. J.P. Sauer & Sohn even copied the M-14 and M-15!
I personally wouldn't buy an altered/damaged gun, but this model is a real rarity, and many would buy one.
I do think a faker might file off the markings on the backstrap, to make it look as if genuine USAF marks were obliterated. That would be a clever move.
It is probably true that this model is the most faked today for purposes of counterfeiting, but I think that historically, the M&P is the most faked, or copied. Most copies have probablybeen Spanish, but South Americans and the Belgians, even Germans have copied the M&P. J.P. Sauer & Sohn even copied the M-14 and M-15!
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Combat, I understood you to say that you bought the gun on the spot. I would have too, unless there was an exorbitant price attached to it that invited serious research. That serial number is in the zone of possibility, and I suspect it probably is a righteous Aircrewman. Does it have the word AIRCREWMAN on the right side of the barrel above the .38 S&W SPECIAL designation? The model name should be in a typeface slightly larger than the caliber designation. I realize that not all AF M13s were identically marked, but I think the two line barrel markings were found on guns with the stamped top strap.
Pictures of legitimate Airweight Aircrewman specimens show a legend on the frame top that is subtly different from the description in SCSW-3rd. The guns bear the model designation M13 (as you report it), whereas SCSW says it was "M-13" with a hyphen. I suspect the book is not correct on this point. It's a minor thing, but I mention it because there are fakes out there we need to have reliable descriptions in the printed resources.
Pictures of legitimate Airweight Aircrewman specimens show a legend on the frame top that is subtly different from the description in SCSW-3rd. The guns bear the model designation M13 (as you report it), whereas SCSW says it was "M-13" with a hyphen. I suspect the book is not correct on this point. It's a minor thing, but I mention it because there are fakes out there we need to have reliable descriptions in the printed resources.
Thanks for the replies, I did buy it, I may have paid to much for a damaged gun but I figure I wouldn't ever run across another one in any condition. The flat latch is the kind that looks like a little ramp. There is also a "P" stamped on the frame above the trigger guard. If someone could fake all the markings on the pistol so well why would they take a file to the backstrap? The damage looks to me like every other military gun I've see that someone tried to remove the U.S. markings on. Anyway I paid $500.00 OTD for it. I'll get a pic up soon and we'll see what y'all think about it then. I'm really hoping it's the real thing. Also, I have this old holster. Is this the right one for the gun?
Texas Star
US Veteran
Thanks for the replies, I did buy it, I may have paid to much for a damaged gun but I figure I wouldn't ever run across another one in any condition. The flat latch is the kind that looks like a little ramp. There is also a "P" stamped on the frame above the trigger guard. If someone could fake all the markings on the pistol so well why would they take a file to the backstrap? The damage looks to me like every other military gun I've see that someone tried to remove the U.S. markings on. Anyway I paid $500.00 OTD for it. I'll get a pic up soon and we'll see what y'all think about it then. I'm really hoping it's the real thing. Also, I have this old holster. Is this the right one for the gun?
I think this is correct, but that leather was also used with later steel guns. I believe it was normally furnished only to flight crews.
But some cops had snub M-15's, called M-56, I think. I knew some guys who'd been stationed at Faircchild AFB, WA, and they didn't like the snubs, as they were harder to quaify with. I always was issued with four-inch barrels or .45 autos.
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You most likely have a legit M13.
Quite a few are known with filed backstraps.
Yes, that is the holster for it.
Quite a few are known with filed backstraps.
Yes, that is the holster for it.
The M56 is a gun of similar rarity and, I suppose, an invitation to similar fakery for the criminally inclined, though design details make the 56 harder to fake than the AF M13.
The M56 is a standard weight snubnose revolver with adjustable sights -- in essence, a Combat Masterpiece with a heavy two-inch barrel. They were made under an AF contract in 1963, and the public interest in the configuration encouraged Smith to introduce a two-inch CM as a Model 15 variant the next year. When the retirement order for the 56 came down, there was no way under federal law to sell them to the public and the permitted purchasers didn't want them; almost all of the 15,000 made (round number) were crushed. Some survived, maybe even a couple of hundred, but fewer than four dozen separate specimens are known to collectors. The 56 also has a very specific serial number range and some peculiarities of design that make it hard to fake -- it lacks grooves where a CM has them, for example. They are known to exist with erased backstraps: I have one of these that is semi-rough and lacking the backstrap US stamp.
Your AF M13 at $500 is a spectacular buy. Congratulations. I ordinarily think that the AF M13 is a more sought-after gun than the M56 and should command higher prices. I got my 56 at a decent price, but it was certainly higher than you paid for your gun.
The M56 is a standard weight snubnose revolver with adjustable sights -- in essence, a Combat Masterpiece with a heavy two-inch barrel. They were made under an AF contract in 1963, and the public interest in the configuration encouraged Smith to introduce a two-inch CM as a Model 15 variant the next year. When the retirement order for the 56 came down, there was no way under federal law to sell them to the public and the permitted purchasers didn't want them; almost all of the 15,000 made (round number) were crushed. Some survived, maybe even a couple of hundred, but fewer than four dozen separate specimens are known to collectors. The 56 also has a very specific serial number range and some peculiarities of design that make it hard to fake -- it lacks grooves where a CM has them, for example. They are known to exist with erased backstraps: I have one of these that is semi-rough and lacking the backstrap US stamp.
Your AF M13 at $500 is a spectacular buy. Congratulations. I ordinarily think that the AF M13 is a more sought-after gun than the M56 and should command higher prices. I got my 56 at a decent price, but it was certainly higher than you paid for your gun.
lonegunman762x51
US Veteran
Pics? Does it have a punch mark or two on it? You got a deal, the missing back strap markings are a bummer. I saw four of them made into book ends using old horse shoes, they were demilled guns and still offered at more than 500 bucks.
pics added
I got some pics now. I found another one for sale on gunbroker. It was lettered as being sent to Norton Air Base in San Bernardo CA. on June 16 1954. The SN. on it was C29427x. That's pretty close to mine, so I'm hoping they were on the same shipment. Here are the pics......................
I got some pics now. I found another one for sale on gunbroker. It was lettered as being sent to Norton Air Base in San Bernardo CA. on June 16 1954. The SN. on it was C29427x. That's pretty close to mine, so I'm hoping they were on the same shipment. Here are the pics......................
Not that I am an expert on these, but based on what I have read that looks like the real thing to me.
Can't quite see: does that have the word AIRCREWMAN on the right side of the barrel in addition to the cartridge designation? I gather some did and some didn't, but I'm not sure which serial number ranges can be expected to have the rollmark.
Can't quite see: does that have the word AIRCREWMAN on the right side of the barrel in addition to the cartridge designation? I gather some did and some didn't, but I'm not sure which serial number ranges can be expected to have the rollmark.
kwill1911
Member
Combat,
FWIW I think it is probably legit. I keep a database on these and think that it was probably shipped in June, 1954 to Norton AFB.
Regards,
Kevin Williams
FWIW I think it is probably legit. I keep a database on these and think that it was probably shipped in June, 1954 to Norton AFB.
Regards,
Kevin Williams
Sorry David, It doesn't have Aircrewmen on the barrel. I'm going to get a letter for this one. I wonder how it got from California to Georgia? Even if it had over fifty years to make the trip its probably a good story in there somewhere. Thanks Kevin, I'm getting the letter to make double sure where it went.
