The Polish Radom pistol - a fascinating history

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I thought you might be interested in seeing a Polish P.35 9mm Radom pistol. At first glance it might appear homely, but the Radom is considered by many experts as one of the best pistols to come out of the WWII period. It was well made and robust.

Poland produced this pistol, which had a blend of features from the M1911 pistol and the Belgian 9mm High Power. It has a grip safety like the M1911, and the barrel is unlocked via a cam like the High Power. The lever on the slide is a decocker - it retracts the firing pin into the slide and drops the hammer on the firing pin retaining plate. The lever to the rear of the grip frame is not a safety - it's a slide retaining latch to aid in disassembly. The slide release is just above the trigger on the left side. There is no manual safety; the design relies solely on a half-cock notch or the floating firing pin which allows safe carry with the hammer down. The decocker was put on the gun in response to a request by the Polish cavalry to help in operating the pistol one-handed; the other hand had to control the reins of a horse. Men on horseback wielding pistols were not a good match for German tanks, however.

When Germany overran Poland in 1939, it took over the Radom plant and began to produce the pistol for its armed forces, including the Navy, fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers), police and the SS. The native Polish workers promptly began smuggling parts of the pistol out of the plant to arm resistance forces. When the Germans found out about this practice, they executed a dozen plant workers in front of their co-workers. Later, to stop sabotage, the Germans started making barrels for the pistols in Austria, and later moved all the machinery to Austria.

This particular pistol was made in Poland in 1942, and bears the German waffenamt acceptance stamps. Later guns dispensed with the takedown latch. Earlier ones were slotted for a shoulder stock. The "VIS" on the right grip panel is Latin for "power" or "force." The "FB" on the left grip panel stands for Fabryka Brony (Weapon Factory), the Polish government manufacturing facility in Radom, Poland.

This gun is in excellent shape for being 70 years old, and could still give good service. It will fire any commonly available 9mm Luger ammo.

John

RADOM-LEFT-1024.jpg


RADOM-RIGHT-1024.jpg
 
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As a collector of classic military pistols , I love it! First the Lahti , now the Radom. The P-35(p) is one of my favorites , being half Polish myself.

Often heard it called, The Last Cavalry Pistol , as the Poles still had cavalry in 1935. Heavy Browning influence is obvious. The decocker tells ya this gun was designed to be carried hammer down on a loaded chamber and thumb-cocked.

Picked this one up at auction awhile ago.
P1160001.jpg
 
German markings on the Polish Radom pistol

Luckily for collectors, Germans have always been meticulous about marking their firearms, both military and commercial. It's fun to "read the marks" that can tell you a lot about firearms made in or accepted by Germany. Here are the marks on a Polish P.35 Radom pistol made in 1942.

RADOM_MARKINGS.jpg


In this picture you will see the "Eagle over WaA77" mark on both the slide and the frame. This waffenamt codes the pistol as being made at the Polish weapons factory in Radom.

The next mark (somewhat indistinct) "P.35(p)" is the official German designation for the Radom P.35. The (p) stands for polnische, the German word for "polish".

The Eagle over Swastika indicates ownership by Nazi Germany.

The "Eagle over 623" stamp indicates that the pistol was given its final acceptance at the Steyr plant in Austria. From there it was likely shipped to the German armed forces, likely paratroopers, police or SS.

RADOM_MARKINGS2.jpg


The markings on the barrel camming lug are fairly straightforward. At the top are the last three digits of the serial number, insuring that the proper barrel is mated with the proper slide and frame.

Next are two "Eagle over 623" acceptance stamps by the Steyr plant in Austria. Probably dimension checks and a proof load.

And finally, the "Eagle over swastika" ownership stamp of Nazi Germany.

Again, the history of a German firearm can be read if you know their marking customs and codes. Although this is a Polish-made firearm, if the Germans used it, it was marked per their protocols. Hope you found this as interesting as I did.

John
 
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Luckily for collectors, Germans have always been meticulous about marking their firearms, both military and commercial. It's fun to "read the marks" that can tell you a lot about firearms made in or accepted by Germany. Here are the marks on a Polish P.35 Radom pistol made in 1942.

RADOM_MARKINGS.jpg


In this picture you will see the "Eagle over WaA77" mark on both the slide and the frame. This waffenamt codes the pistol as being made at the Polish weapons factory in Radom.

The next mark (somewhat indistinct) "P.35(p)" is the official German designation for the Radom P.35.

The Eagle over Swastika indicates ownership by Nazi Germany.

The "Eagle over 623" stamp indicates that the pistol was given its final acceptance at the Steyr plant in Austria. From there it was likely shipped to the German armed forces, likely paratroopers, police or SS.

RADOM_MARKINGS2.jpg


The markings on the barrel camming lug are fairly straightforward. At the top are the last three digits of the serial number, insuring that the proper barrel is mated with the proper slide and frame.

Next are two "Eagle over 623" acceptance stamps by the Steyr plant in Austria. Probably dimension checks and a proof load.

And finally, the "Eagle over swastika" ownership stamp of Nazi Germany.

Again, the history of a German firearm can be read if you know their marking customs and codes. Although this is a Polish-made firearm, if the Germans used it, it was marked per their protocols. Hope you found this as interesting as I did.

John

John-

The same is true of their wine labels, which are very informative. It's well worth learning to read them.
 
I have one of the later model ones without the takedown lever. It is Nazi marked, but it is also in rough condition (it was neglected in a basement after a flood).
 
Paladin thanks for posting good stuff like this, I like it!!

The VIS and the Hi-Power were developed and adopted around the same time frame 1929-1935. I wouldn't quite say the GP35 is part parent of the VIS more like a brother from another mother.(where's the smiley face)

The Nazi Navy used a few of these, on another forum someone posted one that was recovered from a sunken U-boat.
 
Great pics, as usual.

A high school buddy had one of these, but I never got to shoot it. I think he paid $17.50 for it, in NRA Very Good condition.That was back in the 1960's, though. They've gone up.

My first handgun was a Webley MK VI converted to .45 ACP. Back then, I didn't know the pressure issues in a gun proofed for .455. But it never blew a chamber. My mother had to sign the paperwork, as I was just 13. Father got me a Colt M1917 a couple of Christmases later. The Webley cost $13.88, the Colt three bucks more. A No. 4 SMLE by Savage arrived about then, too, but I don't know the price. Probably $14.95 at a famous department store. The Webley came from Montgomery Ward's. Can you imagine dept. stores selling guns now?!

I like the way the Radom fits my hand, but never bought one. The lack of a conventional 1911 style safety bothered me, and I put my meager funds into a real Colt .45 auto. The Germans made wide use of them, probably in part because they took the standard 9mm round. I've seen a photo of one on a Jerry in North Africa.
 
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Paladin thanks for posting good stuff like this, I like it!!

The VIS and the Hi-Power were developed and adopted around the same time frame 1929-1935. I wouldn't quite say the GP35 is part parent of the VIS more like a brother from another mother.(where's the smiley face)

There has been some speculation about whether FN/Belgium people came to Poland to assist in the design of the Radom pistol. Recent research has indicated that there was no collaboration on the design by FN. The gun was designed quite independently by Polish designers Piotr Wilniewczyc and Jan Skrzypiński starting in 1930. In their work, they obviously borrowed heavily from John Browning's M1911 pistol, on which the patents were expiring. The main High Power similarity is the use of a cam rather than a swinging link to unlock the barrel from the slide. At the time the Radom was being designed, the High Power had not yet been introduced, although it was under development by Dieudonne Saive at FN following Browning's untimely death in 1926. The Radom did not use an integrally ramped barrel, which was introduced on the High Power when it was first produced in 1935.

John
 
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There has been some speculation about whether FN/Belgium people came to Poland to assist in the design of the Radom pistol. Recent research has indicated that there was no collaboration on the design by FN. The gun was designed quite independently by Polish designers Piotr Wilniewczyc and Jan Skrzypiński starting in 1930. In their work, they obviously borrowed heavily from John Browning's M1911 pistol, on which the patents were expiring. The main High Power similarity is the use of a cam rather than a swinging link to unlock the barrel from the slide. At the time the Radom was being designed, the High Power had not yet been introduced, although it was under development by Dieudonne Saive at FN following Browning's untimely death in 1926. The Radom did not use an integrally ramped barrel, which was introduced on the High Power when it was first produced in 1935.

John

John, Yes, Piotr Wiliniewczyc as written in Bergers book denies that FN supplied any design help. Berger mentions also that Wiliniewczyc considered the 1911 and Browning 1903 to be the most modern designs available when the VIS was concepted.

The VIS, as short lived as it was makes for an interesting collectible in it's variations that it went through, mostly by the Nazi's.

Very interesting time frame period where great minds and great designs came about VIS,GP35,TT30/33 throw in Walther with the PP and Mauser HSc. All granddads to certain degree of whats around today.
 
Great thread and posts. I had heard some time ago that the Radom was considered by some to be one of the better 9mm semi-autos in its day.

It's interesting that this thread is here now. Two weekends ago at the gunshow I saw one on a table and considered buying it but I passed.
 
Nice VIZ 35 Paladin, and an informative post. I have wanted one for a long time but have not found an example of an early one in good enough shape for my tastes at a price that I thought was fair. I might recommend a new book to all that are interested: VIS Radom, A Study and Photographic Album of Poland's Finest Pistol by William J. York. This is a new book from Wet Dog Publications that was just printed last year and is very well done.
 
I thought you might be interested in seeing a Polish P.35 9mm Radom pistol. At first glance it might appear homely, but the Radom is considered by many experts as one of the best pistols to come out of the WWII period. It was well made and robust.

Poland produced this pistol, which had a blend of features from the M1911 pistol and the Belgian 9mm High Power. It has a grip safety like the M1911, and the barrel is unlocked via a cam like the High Power. The lever on the slide is a decocker - it retracts the firing pin into the slide and drops the hammer on the hammer retaining plate. The lever to the rear of the grip frame is not a safety - it's a slide retaining latch to aid in disassembly. The slide release is just above the trigger on the left side. There is no manual safety; the design relies solely on a half-cock notch or the floating firing pin which allows safe carry with the hammer down. The decocker was put on the gun in response to a request by the Polish cavalry to help in operating the pistol one-handed; the other hand had to control the reins of a horse. Men on horseback wielding pistols were not a good match for German tanks, however.

When Germany overran Poland in 1939, it took over the Radom plant and began to produce the pistol for its armed forces, including the Navy, fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers), police and the SS. The native Polish workers promptly began smuggling parts of the pistol out of the plant to arm resistance forces. When the Germans found out about this practice, they executed a dozen plant workers in front of their co-workers. Later, to stop sabotage, the Germans started making barrels for the pistols in Austria, and later moved all the machinery to Austria.

This particular pistol was made in Poland in 1942, and bears the German waffenamt acceptance stamps. Later guns dispensed with the takedown latch. Earlier ones were slotted for a shoulder stock. The "VIS" on the right grip panel is Latin for "power" or "force." The "FB" on the left grip panel stands for Fabryka Brony (Weapon Factory), the Polish government manufacturing facility in Radom, Poland.

This gun is in excellent shape for being 70 years old, and could still give good service. It will fire any commonly available 9mm Luger ammo.

John

RADOM-LEFT-1024.jpg


RADOM-RIGHT-1024.jpg

I have really appreciated reading this thread.

I have a Mod 35 VIS 9mm. It has a serial number starting with a P. It has solid pins. It has a white barrel. It does have the take down lever. All numbers matching. It has all the acceptance marks. It is approximately 85 to 90%. Speaking of the acceptance marks; this is what I have been trying to learn is exactly what they all mean. This thread finally gave me that information!

I have been considering selling my Radom, but the more I learn about it, the less I want to sell it. It does shoot very nicely.

Economics still might force me to sell it. However, I don't really know for certain what it is worth. I have heard as low as $300 and as high as $1200. I will not give it away. If all I can get is $500 or less - I will definitely keep it. I will post pictures of it when I get a chance. Any advise from you, since you really seam to know this gun and it's values?
 
John,

Thanks once again for a very informative post. I look forward to these and appreciate the research and detail you put into each one.

Jerry
 
Thanks, John

+1 on j38! I love these history lessons. Probably never
would've found out as much about the Radom, or many other
firearms, as posted here by people who know what they're
talking about. Thanks, all.
TACC1
 
Not as pretty as a Hi Power, but definitely not homely. Great info!
 
I have a friend here who is one of the foremost collectors of Radoms in the country. To say that his collection is extensive is an understatement.
f.t.
 
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