The Remington Models 8 & 81 semiauto rifles...

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This is another advance look at a draft of a coming article. As always, comments welcome.

John

Remington Models 8 and 81 semiautomatic rifles

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The date was May 23, 1934. Clyde Barrow and his girlfriend Bonnie Parker were racing down a country road in Louisiana in a stolen 1933 Ford V8, hell-bent on their way to make yet another bank robbery. The pair was already responsible for numerous other robberies, and also for as many as 17 vicious murders in the process. A carefully-assembled law enforcement team headed by legendary former Texas Ranger Frank Hamer had spent 102 days of sleuthing to figure out where the two were and where they were headed. Hamer had painstakingly studied Barrow’s patterns of movement, and these patterns fit a tip he received that Bonnie and Clyde were on their way to a rural bank in Bienville Parish, Louisiana to make an unauthorized withdrawal. It was well known that the two were well armed and that Barrow had vowed he would never be taken alive. Figuring the probable route of their travel, Hamer had “persuaded” the father of one of Barrow’s friends and known accomplices near that road to act as a decoy to stop the car so an ambush could take place. The police took up positions and waited for hours. Finally, at 9:15 that morning, the stolen car was seen careening down the road toward the ambush site, just as anticipated. The decoy waved his arms as the car approached, and Barrow, recognizing the man, slowed down and stopped near him. That was his fatal mistake.

The lawmen visibly deployed, and Bonnie and Clyde were cut off from escape. There were six men in the posse - four Texas officers and two Louisiana lawmen. All were armed to the teeth with rifles, shotguns and handguns. Two of them, Hamer and Sheriff’s Deputy Prentiss Oakley, carried Remington Model 8 semiautomatic rifles. Barrow, in the driver’s seat, looked around frantically for a way out. There was none. One of the officers called Barrow out, but there was no response. Deputy Oakley, well-known as a crack marksman, responded immediately, using his Model 8 chambered in .35 Remington to fire the first shot of the day through Barrow’s left temple, killing him instantly. Over 130 shots were then fired into the car, and Bonnie Parker’s life was snuffed out quickly.

When the smoke cleared, there was no doubt about the deadly outcome. The Swiss-cheesed car eventually wound up on display in a Las Vegas casino.

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The Bonnie and Clyde death car, riddled with bullet holes

The future Remington Model 8 was designed and patented on October 16, 1900 by John Moses Browning, who sold the patent rights to Remington. He at that time also worked on what was to become the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. The rifle and the shotgun shared the same long-stroke recoil operating system. For the first 5 years after its introduction in 1906, the rifle was known only as the “Remington Autoloading Rifle.” It became the Model 8 in 1911. This was the first semiautomatic rifle capable of reliably firing full-power cartridges on a par with the popular .30-30 Winchester. The innovative rifle had a 22” fully-jacketed reciprocating barrel. The fixed-in-place box magazine could be filled using stripper clips. Four then-new rounds were developed for the Model 8. The first was the .35 Remington, then the .30 Remington in 1907, and then finally the 32 and .25 Remington. The .35 Remington magazine had a capacity of 4 rounds, while the others could accommodate 5.

John Browning entered into an agreement with Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Belgium to make this rifle as the FN Model 1900. Sales were restricted to areas outside of the United States. This model was made from 1910 to 1929, with only mediocre sales. A total of 4,913 were produced and sold, mostly in Europe and Canada. They are found only rarely today in the U.S.

In operation, the bolt (with a rotating bolt head) and the barrel, locked together, recoil to the rear in firing while compressing a pair of recoil springs. Then the bolt is retained to the rear while the barrel moves forward by one of the springs as extraction and ejection take place. Then the bolt is released and returned forward by the second spring, in the process stripping another round from the magazine and chambering it. The bolt has a hold-open mechanism that activates when the magazine is empty. The Model 8 can be taken down for transportation, as the barrel and receiver will easily separate without the need for tools.

Remington went full-bore with its promotional advertising for its new rifle, and professional artwork showed hunters confronting bears, wolves, and other intimidating animals with it. The idea was conveyed that here was a powerful, fast-acting and reliable semiautomatic rifle that could be counted on in desperate situations. It worked. Sales were brisk, not only among civilians, but also by police organizations, who often had their rifles modified to take extended magazines.

In 1936, with improvements by Remington’s C.C. Loomis, the Model 8 became the Model 81 Woodsmaster. In 1937, the .25 Remington caliber was dropped, making 81s in that chambering rare collector items. In 1940, it was also offered in .300 Savage chambering. There were 5 different grades provided. These were Standard (81A), Special (81B), Peerless (81D), Expert (81E) and Premier (81F). The FBI ordered a number of these Model 81s.

The Model 81 Police Models were specially customized. These had higher capacity magazines holding 10, 15 or 20 rounds. Many had larger fore-ends and some had special engraving for individual police departments. There were two main sources for these custom guns: Peace Officer’s Equipment (POE) of St. Joseph, Missouri, and Hawkeye Protective Appliance Co. of Des Moines, Iowa. Remington made plans to make their own police guns in 1938, and probably counted on working with the POE Company. Only a few of these were made; the quantity is unknown. Collectors pay high prices for them when found; one is illustrated as the lower gun in the photo here.

Production figures show that about 26,000 Remington Autoloading Rifles were made from 1906 to 1911, 80,600 Model 8s from 1911 to 1936, and 55,581 Model 81s from 1936 to 1950, when production ceased. Total production of all models was 162,181.

Five years after the Model 81 was dropped from the Remington line, in 1955 Remington came out with the Model 740, a gas-operated semiautomatic rifle. It inherited the Woodsmaster name from the earlier rifles. Over the years, the 740 evolved to become the 742, 7400 and then the 750. The 750 was discontinued in late 2016. The only centerfire semiauto rifles made by Remington now are the R-15 and R-25 AR-style models.

Model 8s and Model 81s are still found in the hunting fields today, and they have become popular collecting items that evoke nostalgia for the good old days and the good old guns that were made to last for a long, long time. They are landmark American rifles!

(c) 2019 JLM
 
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Great article and thanks for posting. That Model 8 is sure interesting and must have made a stir with sportsman way back then. Only semi from Remington I own is a Model Four in .270 but it is a great looking gun. Thanks again for the scoop.
 
Here's the picture I always have to post when these great rifles are mentioned. I sent this to the author of the great Frank Hamer book pictured. But my gun is a 1949 Model 81 in .300 Savage. Too late for Bonnie & Clyde.





Great pics & book. I think it's due for a re-read.
 
I've got 2 M-8s, One in 30 Rem and One in 25. Wish I had the other calibers in my collection. I got mine before people started collecting them, I think I paid $150 for the 30 and $140 for the 25. Shooting the 25 is like shooting a 22, the rifle is heavy enough there is very little recoil.
SWCA 892
 
I've got 2 M-8s, One in 30 Rem and One in 25. Wish I had the other calibers in my collection. I got mine before people started collecting them, I think I paid $150 for the 30 and $140 for the 25. Shooting the 25 is like shooting a 22, the rifle is heavy enough there is very little recoil.
SWCA 892
Until around the mid to late 1990s Model 8s And 81s were for sale all very around here for $200-$300 tops. One consignment store had about twelve from one seller. I bought the .300 Savage 81 I posted earlier for $200. Then all of a sudden prices skyrocketed and they were all gone. One oddball for sale was a Model 8 in .308! I don’t know how a gun that was never a .300 Savage was now a .308 and wondered if it was safe. Maybe the barrel half of a .300 Model 81 had the chamber opened up to .308 case length.
 
My 1st deer rifle was a Rem #8 in 35cal. It was marked as property of a Indiana Prison. I have always wanted a detachable magazine model and a couple of years ago bought a #81 Krieger conversion in 300 Savage. I didn't realize that this conversion although of top shelf machining was not made in high capacity mags.
Gun has a Redfield reciever sight on hump and is a good shooter. The 35 & 300sav were the only ones people were interested in as shooters. The 25-30& 32 Rem cartridges were discontinued making ammo a problem. Now with collector interest they all are bringing top dollar. IMG_2984.jpg


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I prefer straight stock on #8 to #81 pistol grip. If anyone has info on the
Kreiger conversions I would appreciate hearing it. As far as I can find he never made magazines only adapted the rifles box magazines.
 
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Nice write-up OP. I have a 1914 Model 8 that belonged to a relative. It’s in .35 Rem so still pretty shootable. Considering taking it hog-hunting in SC this September as a matter of fact. Cool old guns indeed.
 
I walked into a gun store in Caro, MI back in the late '70s and had some
cash in my pocket.
On the rack was an 81--with a SOLD sign on it.
Closest I came to buying one.
If the interview my wife had there had been a month, or
even a couple of weeks earlier...
 
I had one in .35 REM when I was young in Santa Barbara Calif shot some deer with it WOW the huge .35 just lifted them little 200# deer right off there feet. JIM FLYNN
 
That was a lot of firepower back then. The .35 Remy has a lot of knockdown and 20 shells in the clip is real neat.
 
I just saw one at yesteryear prices (around $400) at a gun shop while on vacation. I think it was in .300 Savage. If I hadn't already dropped $2500 in that shop, I probably would have picked it up. They are usually $700+ in my area.
 
I have a couple 30's , a 32, a C grade 25 and a 35cal all in Model 8.
Only one M81 that's in 35cal.

I load all of the calibers. 30Rem brass is still around here and there.
A simple trip into the 32Rem FL die makes it into that caliber.
I lucked into an RCBS 2 die case forming set '30Rem to 25Rem' at a GS for $10. One is a file trim die, but I never have seen the need to use it.
It certainly does make forming the 30Rem into 25Rem an easy one step.
They then need a pass though a FL sizer.
Trying to do the same w/just the 25Rem FL die leaves me with a few less than perfect cases for some reason. I don't like loosing any of this brass.

If you want a soft shooting rifle, find one in 25Remington. They are simply a joy to shoot. They still have more than enough power for deer at reasonable autoloading rifle ranges.

The earliest of the Model 8's were caliber marked somewhat confusingly.
The 30Remingon was marked 30-30Rem
The 25Remingtom was marked 25-35Rem

Some experts at the Gunshows still believe the rifles will shoot the 30-30WCF and 25-35WCF interchangably.

Ballisticaly about the same and the case shapes aside from the rim or lack of it look similar. But they are not the same cartridges dispite what the guy behind the table at the show expounds.

I don't believe Remington ever marked the 32's with anything other than 32Rem.

Stevens used to mark their HighPower Model 425 lever action chambered in the same series of Remington cartridges with the same identifiers,,30-30Rem and 25-35Rem.
That really confused people. They first think they have an older square bolt Marlin L/A in their hand and it gets more confusing from there.

FWIW,,on the bottom of the bbl (cover) on the model 8 there is a small hole. That is NOT an oil hole for lubing the recoil spring(s) inside there.
That is the factory attachment point for the forward sling swivel.
Inside the sheet metal cover there is a small threaded plate brazed into place to accept the swivel base. It is not simply threading into the sheet metal of the cover.

Do not be tempted to use the small sling swivel looking TD screw located on the forend and a sling attachment point.
The screw will probably hold but the fragile loop will not and will pull off the screw.
The M81 did away with the small sling type loop TD devise on the forend and replaced it with a simple slotted screw head that you can use a coin to unscrew. Same TD feature inside, just a different way to get the forend wood off and out of the way. Cheaper to make too.
 
About 20 years ago my wife bought me a beautiful .30 Rem. Model 8 for Christmas that I saw in a pawn shop. It was $175 and didn’t have a rubber pad on it. Unfortunately when I tried to load it the cartridges wouldn’t sty in. Turns out the barrel assembly with the .30 caliber marking was on a .35 Remington receiver. Guess someone cleaned two rifles and mixed them up upon reassembly. What a shame. The store took it back and I got a pearl handled Colt Police Positive instead.
 
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