The 'Thumbs-Forward' grip????

[Ranger514]

I converted to thumbs forward for my semi-auto grip over 15 years ago, thanks to the Reactive Shooting instructors at the Federal LE Training Center. However, when shooting revolvers, I revert to the thumb-pressing-over-thumb, two-handed grip I was taught when I duty carried my 686. For me, thumbs forward just feels awkward with a revolver because the forward thumb resting on the frame beneanth the cylinder interferes with my trigger finger.

 

[bugmanz]

in September 1990 i participated in an FBI firearms instructors school. we were taught this grip for auto pistols.at the time it was referred to as the "flying thumbs" grip. the thought behind it went something like this.lets say you shoot right handed .you grip the gun with your right,wrapping it around the stocks tightly and then with your left hand palm area press into the left side of the stock creating a vice like affect on your gun,thus giving the platform more stability all the way around.it was a difficult grip for me to master from years of mainly shooting revolver but once i did i felt its difference in stability. took a while. our FBI instructors had had been recently trained by john shaw at mid-south shooting. i think that is where they acquired the style. from what i understand mr. shaw was teaching that grip to most of the military special operations people who attended his training at the time. he was considered one of the best 3 gun shooters in the world back them.I had great teachers in that FBI school that's for sure.

 

[THEmodelof1989]

I am not so sure your thoughts on thumbs forward offers LESS grip is correct. I am an old school shooter/instructor, been thru all the changes in grip & stance, so while I tend to agree, don't fix what isn't broken, there are better ways to do most things, shooting is not different. So while I would have a diff time getting an older shooter to switch, it took me a few 1000 rds, I teach thumbs forward because it is in fact a better way to run a pistol fast & accurate. It is why the best shooters use it.

My thoughts on thumbs forward while shooting one handed are absolutely correct. If you read my comments carefully you'll see that we are talking specifically about firing a pistol using only one hand.

Not all of the best shooters shoot thumbs forward. That's just false. I will admit that the instruction I give is from combat and police experience, not competition shooting. I've seen marksman from the presidents 100 using the cinch grip I have referred to, fire expert qualifications, one handed, with their non dominant hands. Hard for me to believe that guys in the presidents 100 aren't among some of the best shooters.

While there are better ways to do many things. Putting everyone in a box and deciding what is best for that specific individual, regardless of how they feel, is the mark of a poor instructor.

 

[SuperMan]

Jeff Cooper used the thumbs forward grip and stated he did so only because otherwise he would sometimes forget to take the safety off his 1911... I have also seen pictures of Elmer Keith shooting thumbs forward with a revolver...like back in the 1940s... I do not know however how he gripped a 1911.

Thumbs forward didn't become popular until the late 1980s...and it came from an IPSC shooter, one of the champions, but I can not remember which one. During that time most people shooting IPSC shot a 1911 thumbs down...as soon as more and more shooters started using the thumbs forward technique more and more complaints about the 1911 grip safety failing to deactivate arose. Some smiths started pinning the grip safety down to totally deactivate it...not real good from a liability standpoint... I believe it was Bill Wilson who came up with the "speedbump" that added metal to the bottom of the safety to guaranty it was deactivated. Now just about all 1911s come with a speedbump saftey unless it is a "Classic" style 1911 with the original type...

My experience with the TF method has been just the opposite of most shooters. I tried it back in the early 1990s while still competing only to see my scores go down and my gun fail to fire... meaning I would have to switch out all my 1911s to a speedbump...so since I also shoot just as much SA and DA revolver as semi I stay with one grip for all...

As an instructor (NRA Basic Pistol, Personal Protecting In and Outside the Home) as well as teaching defensive shooting courses since 1991 I have found that most people, especially those with limited grip strength, shoot better thumbs down. I teach both methods for those shooting semi-auto and let the student decide which works best for them.

When I was with the NH Probation/Parole there were 68 PPOs... I did remedial training with 22 of them...bringing their score from the 60s and 70s to high 80s low 90s...with just a grip change and making sure they pressed the trigger correctly...usually 1-2 sessions...

The thumbs forward method works if you have the total technique correct. Most instructors have no clue that there is more to it than just putting the thumbs forward. The hands have to be pressed strongly together also otherwise every time the gun goes off the gun wallows in the hand...and this is why so many shooters are not shooting near as well as they should be...

And there is one thing that can't be overcome when putting ones thumbs forward...it creates a hollow in the hand loosing partial contact with the backstrap...and how do I know this...speedbump... If there was still full firm contact with the backstrap a standard 1911 grip safety would still function as normal. Add that to a female shooter who has limited gripstrength already and it becomes a disaster...

Thumbsforward works for those with the strength and technique to do it correctly...but if someone is struggling try changing the grip....

Bob

 

[Crh1943]

Many great opinions

I am of those who agree with "whatever works for you, then keep doing it."

I personally do thumbs forward for pistols and revolvers, unless revolvers are .40 caliber and up (for obvious reasons). I personally have only gotten a black thumb from the thumbs forward with .38 and .357. I shoot J frame .38's and K, L and N frame .38/.357's. I shoot 9 and 45 semi auto Glocks, S&W's, Hi Powers, Sigs and 1911's.

I am not a pro shooter or LEO. I am not a vet. I am just a guy who loves recreational shooting and train as much as I can. This year being an exception due to COVID-19, but I am still dry firing and going to the range sparringly.

Watch "How to Grip a Pistol: The How and Why" on YouTube
YouTube

This video provides good insight (to me) on why a person might want to use a thumbs forward grip.

All the best to you guys and gals out there. Stay well!

 

[Fastbolt]

Instructing and training someone who may find themselves in a desperate fight protecting their life, or that of an innocent third person, requires them to learn to operate their handgun so that they can exert superior control, operation and retention of their weapon during both 1 & 2-handed shooting. The conditions and circumstances in which they may have to accomplish this may vary according to events.

Not everyone has the same size hands, the same degree of physical dexterity, hand/wrist strength, etc.

Some handguns are going to place different demands on different shooters. (Size, weight, caliber, design/action, etc.)

Just like martial arts practitioners may not be able to make one response and technique work for all possible conditions and circumstances, a shooter may benefit from acquiring some flexibility in learning to master a "grip technique" that enhances their ability to control their weapon under various possible conditions.

There's no "rule" that excludes fluidity in the performance - and subtle shifting, if need be - of the "best" appropriate grip technique for the needs of the moment.

If someone only works to learn one specific technique, will they be able to meet a sudden critical demand to safely, efficiently and effectively run their handgun 1 & 2-handed using their dominant hand, as well as 1 & 2-handed from the perspective of using their non-dominant hand?

Seek the training you think you may need for your anticipated circumstances ... and then practice, practice and practice some more until that technique (or range of technique options) is accessible without "stopping" to think about it under stress and duress.

Then again, some folks might only need and wish to enjoy some leisurely target range sessions.

Most people who drive motor veh's will never find they need to be trained to be as skilled and capable in their driving skills as a race driver. Many drivers may discover, to their dismay, that they may lack the necessary skills to respond to an unexpected emergency driving situation, though, let alone do so effectively and be able to make the right decisions.

 

[mscampbell2734]

Revolver or auto, y'all lock those thumbs down tight!

Actually if you look at some OLD photos, and even a FEW current shooters, their thumbs are straight UP.

This, as mentioned by a couple of posters, are to keep your thumbs away from safeties, slide stops etc, and not cause shooter induced malfunctions.

Notice in the color photo of Cooper his support thumb is straight up. Even in the blk/wht photo his support thumb is not truly OVER the primary thumb, rather just sort of resting along side of it. His primary thumb is riding the safety and his support thumb is where it is in order to be out of the way.

 

[fredj338]

My thoughts on thumbs forward while shooting one handed are absolutely correct. If you read my comments carefully you'll see that we are talking specifically about firing a pistol using only one hand.

Not all of the best shooters shoot thumbs forward. That's just false. I will admit that the instruction I give is from combat and police experience, not competition shooting. I've seen marksman from the presidents 100 using the cinch grip I have referred to, fire expert qualifications, one handed, with their non dominant hands. Hard for me to believe that guys in the presidents 100 aren't among some of the best shooters.

While there are better ways to do many things. Putting everyone in a box and deciding what is best for that specific individual, regardless of how they feel, is the mark of a poor instructor.

Thumbs forward grip is a two handed grip. When I shoot one hand, nothng changs, just one hand. Target shooting is not anything like combat shooting. So best combat shooters are using thumbs forward. I dont really care what target shooters do In slow fire.

 

[roundgun]

I agree with all posting in this thread about using a grip technique that works for you, just don't confuse "works" with "feels good". Most of the time trying a new/different technique is uncomfortable right off the bat. I had to give this "Thumbs Forward" thing quite a few rounds before I started seeing the benefit.

 

[M1A]

Thumbs down on thumbs forward. I shoot both revolver and semi a lot.
Thumbs forward is definitely not ok shooting some revolvers. Having two grip styles is something I don't have to think about. Thumbs down for either handgun.

 

[fredj338]

O thnk many of you that still lock your thumbs down ate NOT shooting at a high speed. As I noted, most any old grip will do in slow fire. Speed it up, try breaking accurate 1/3 sec splits at 10y+, get back to me. I see all manner of gripping a pistol with new shooters in high speed competition shooting. The slow guys are locking thumbs down, some even still shoot weaver. Isnt wrong, just slow.