There Are Sheep, There Are Wolves, Then There Are Sheepdogs. What Are You?

[805moparkid]

The complete work-

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman


On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."

Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always, even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:

"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

 

[Freeway]

Very true, very amazing thoughts!

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Edmund Burke

 

[Marshwheeling]

This is just so much self-aggrandizing hooey. Most people are not sheep, and the choice to carry a gun does not turn you into a sheepdog.

 

[walnutred]

I don't consider myself a sheep dog because I do not consider it my responsibility to look out for others. In the broad sense at least. If anything I consider myself a watchdog in the sense as it IS my responsibility to look out for those who for what ever reason I consider to be within my care. Now this does not mean that if I was walking down the street and saw something obvious I would just walk away like seems to happen in the 47% neighborhoods. It means that I don't consider my CCW to make me responsible for looking out for the general public.

 

[dougb1946]

There is a mistake in classifying people as sheep, wolves, or sheepdogs. People are situational.

You see an old guy, sitting in the sun, and call him a sheep. He's sitting there, thinking about the walk he made up the Bataan Peninsula being poked at with bayonets. He didn't look like a warrior. He just looked like a tired old guy who worked hard. He's just an old guy, minding his own business now. Or you see a another aging "sheep", having a quiet drink by himself. He's trying to not think about landing in a hot LZ in Nam. Or another sheep, wanting nothing to do with guns anymore, because after his third tour in the sandbox, he is just tired of shooting. He has shot at enough people. My Dad probably would have been called a sheep. He never carried a handgun. He could shoot the head of a flushed pheasant with his 12 gauge. The navy taught him how to pass shoot with a 20mm, and he practiced off Okinawa.

The person who wants nothing to do with guns may be the person who drags a kid out of a burning house, or steps in front of an armed "wolf" to protect his wife.

And the self professed "sheepdog" may be the one with wet pants when the "sheep" takes some action. Carrying a gun doesn't make a person a warrior. People are full of surprises.

Most of the WW2 vets I have had the pleasure of meeting would have laughed at the idea of being sheepdogs. They knew who they were, they know what they had done. They didn't feel any real need to talk about it, because all they did was what had to be done. They did what they had to do, then went back to being "sheep".

 

[Cooter Brown]

There is a mistake in classifying people as sheep, wolves, or sheepdogs. People are situational.

You see an old guy, sitting in the sun, and call him a sheep. He's sitting there, thinking about the walk he made up the Bataan Peninsula being poked at with bayonets. He didn't look like a warrior. He just looked like a tired old guy who worked hard. He's just an old guy, minding his own business now. Or you see a another aging "sheep", having a quiet drink by himself. He's trying to not think about landing in a hot LZ in Nam. Or another sheep, wanting nothing to do with guns anymore, because after his third tour in the sandbox, he is just tired of shooting. He has shot at enough people. My Dad probably would have been called a sheep. He never carried a handgun. He could shoot the head of a flushed pheasant with his 12 gauge. The navy taught him how to pass shoot with a 20mm, and he practiced off Okinawa.

The person who wants nothing to do with guns may be the person who drags a kid out of a burning house, or steps in front of an armed "wolf" to protect his wife.

And the self professed "sheepdog" may be the one with wet pants when the "sheep" takes some action. Carrying a gun doesn't make a person a warrior. People are full of surprises.

Most of the WW2 vets I have had the pleasure of meeting would have laughed at the idea of being sheepdogs. They knew who they were, they know what they had done. They didn't feel any real need to talk about it, because all they did was what had to be done. They did what they had to do, then went back to being "sheep".

Excellent post. My father is WWII Pacific theater vet, and you just described him perfectly.

What I usually think when I see the "sheep vs. sheepdog" thing is that I'm neither. I'm a man. Smarter yet more dangerous and at the same time more compassionate than either and with a free will and the ability to react to more than basic stimuli in a given situation.

 

[sipowicz]

I see myself as something between a zebra and a llama..so this read didn't really resonate with me.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Always figured you for some sort of marsupial, Sip. With a handy place to keep a J frame.

Just shows what I know.

 

[Alnamvet68]

They used to call me "The Bishop"...what does that make me?

 

[keith44spl]

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Like Peter....I am not without my sword, whilest in the House of the Lord



As to the OP....

I'm just an Ol Papa Bear....Toward all the little ones eveywhere

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[mjr]

By nature I'm more of an indoor-outdoor house cat.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Sheep? Sheepdog? Wolves?

Mere words cannot describe what a man will do when faced with danger. Unless we have experienced it, no one man can say or predict how he will react.

Nobody knows us better than we know ourselves. We might have a pretty good idea as to how we would react but until it happens, we will never know for sure.

I have seen grown men, strong brave men fold under pressure or cower or run and hide in the face of danger. And I've seen the most unassuming man step up with bravery when confronted with such danger. And to pass judgement on either man without facing it yourself is wrong.

I know that without a doubt that I would not hesitate to protect myself or my family and God help the poor soul that tries to play the part of the wolf. Does that make me a sheepdog? I don't know and don't care. I like to think of myself as an average humble man that minds his own business and expects others to do the same.

And those of us who have focused on what goes on between the ears instead of focusing on the hardware have a distinct advantage.

 

[StatesRightist]

This is just so much self-aggrandizing hooey. Most people are not sheep, and the choice to carry a gun does not turn you into a sheepdog.

Study history much? Anytime their has been armed conflict, revolution, etc in America there has been a small percentage of the population who actually "pulls a trigger."

Pick up a history book and check it out.

I don't buy his 3 characters as all there is, but to say the majority of people are not sheep is historically wrong and obtuse in the face of where this country is today.

 

[Harrison]

According to our federal government, there are the elite, their enforcers, taxpaying subjects and victems that the government takes care of, at the expense of the taxpayers.

 

[snubbyfan]

There is a mistake in classifying people as sheep, wolves, or sheepdogs. People are situational.

You see an old guy, sitting in the sun, and call him a sheep. He's sitting there, thinking about the walk he made up the Bataan Peninsula being poked at with bayonets. He didn't look like a warrior. He just looked like a tired old guy who worked hard. He's just an old guy, minding his own business now. Or you see a another aging "sheep", having a quiet drink by himself. He's trying to not think about landing in a hot LZ in Nam. Or another sheep, wanting nothing to do with guns anymore, because after his third tour in the sandbox, he is just tired of shooting. He has shot at enough people. My Dad probably would have been called a sheep. He never carried a handgun. He could shoot the head of a flushed pheasant with his 12 gauge. The navy taught him how to pass shoot with a 20mm, and he practiced off Okinawa.

The person who wants nothing to do with guns may be the person who drags a kid out of a burning house, or steps in front of an armed "wolf" to protect his wife.

And the self professed "sheepdog" may be the one with wet pants when the "sheep" takes some action. Carrying a gun doesn't make a person a warrior. People are full of surprises.

Most of the WW2 vets I have had the pleasure of meeting would have laughed at the idea of being sheepdogs. They knew who they were, they know what they had done. They didn't feel any real need to talk about it, because all they did was what had to be done. They did what they had to do, then went back to being "sheep".

Makes me think of my Father as well. After surviving WWII and the Korean conflict, he was scarred, battered and had enough with guns and killing. The only gun he allowed in the house was a BB gun that I used only with his supervision.
He didn't carry a weapon of any kind and he didn't have to. He would warn people to not sneak up on him because he would react automatically and didn't want to hurt anyone. One young fellow decided to try and sneak up on an old war vet who walked with a limp and stood with a permanent lean. He found himself flying through the air and had a bent old man on him even before he hit the ground. "Dammit, I told you not to do that." After that no one ever tested my Dad again.
I miss my Dad.

 

[StatesRightist]

WWII vets were obviously not sheep by definition. I don't see where there is any confusion on this point. I don't think the guy was saying it's based on what you classify yourself as, it's based on what you have done etc. Many a humble man as turned out to be a Tiger. Look at Audie Murphy.

 

[Rule3]

I am a Man, but I can change, I guess, if I have to.

More of a Possum

Quando omni flunkus moritati"

 

[Marshwheeling]

Study history much? Anytime their has been armed conflict, revolution, etc in America there has been a small percentage of the population who actually "pulls a trigger."

Pick up a history book and check it out.

I don't buy his 3 characters as all there is, but to say the majority of people are not sheep is historically wrong and obtuse in the face of where this country is today.

The notion that only a few people "pull a trigger" in armed conflict may be true on a couple of levels, but it has nothing to do with the original premise.

The sheep you are talking about are what are commonly referred to here as "sheeple", presumably not the same as the sheep the original post refers to, although you obviously, and quite naturally, conflate the two. That alone is enough to render the original premise objectionable.

 

[mc5aw]

I'm a firm believer that the majority of the population are ignorant and indifferent to what's going on around them. Is that sheepish? I'm not sure.

Wolves are predatory carnivores, similar to other canine-like creatures ... coyotes, dingoes, hyenas ... Are there predators in society, preying on weaker animals? Yes.

Sheepdogs are herders and, to a certain degree, protectors of the flock. I'm not a shepherd, nor am I military/LEO, thus my business/obligation is not to herd or protect anyone other than my modest proprietary brood.

Weakness can be transformed into strength as much as bullying can morph into cowardice, depending on environmental factors, so accurately classifying people within the narrow parameters of sheep/wolves/sheepdogs is a tough thing to do.

 

[COL Jagdog]

I see myself as something between a zebra and a llama..so this read didn't really resonate with me.

Would that be a zeama or a llabra??

Whatever it is, it would make for a soft and geometrically patterned throw rug for the den.