There seems to be more to the EV story

Let's talk about the CCP's EVs

China's Abandoned, Obsolete Electric Cars Are Piling Up in Cities
A subsidy-fueled boom helped build China into an electric-car giant but left weed-infested lots across the nation brimming with unwanted battery-powered vehicles
.
By Bloomberg News
August 17, 2023, 1:00 PM MDT

... This time, the cars were likely deserted after the ride-hailing companies that owned them failed, or because they were about to become obsolete as automakers rolled out EV after EV with better features and longer driving ranges. They're a striking representation of the excess and waste that can happen when capital floods into a burgeoning industry, and perhaps also an odd monument to the seismic progress in electric transportation over the last few years.

About a decade ago, encouraged by government subsidies, hundreds of automakers across China, both established players and startups, waded into electric-car manufacturing. They churned out huge numbers of early-stage EVs — relatively no-frills cars whose batteries in some instances could only run for around 100 kilometers (62 miles) on a charge...

You all think the numbers may have been inflated a bit? I mean China wouldn't lie about such things, would it?
 
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I will admit that my EV resistance is based primarily against government mandates and federal subsidies. I just do not accept being forced or nagged very well.
Yeah, me neither.
Seems to me that if EVs were as great as their fanbois make them out to be they wouldn't need government mandates and subsidies to be competitive in the marketplace.
Forgive my naivete for believing in something so simplistic as supply and demand market economics.
 
For me, I just don't like being lied to, told what to believe, by the government/politicians and having choices taken away to further their agenda.

On top of that, I don't want an expensive disposable vehicle with limited range and long charging times. I'll take the "fuel and go" and unlimited range, compared to a battery powered vehicle, all the time, every time!
 
Most of you don't want to hear it, haters can just move on.

I followed the link from our OP. That wasn't a research study, it was an advertisement.

Quote:
"The foundation is a conservative think tank that according to 2012 tax filings was funded predominantly by Exxon Mobil, Chevron and the Koch brothers. The organization, according to the New York Times, has been attempting for years to promote fossil fuels while inciting a pullback in America's transition to renewable energy. "
"Inciting" is the understatement of the year.

It's usually appropriate to discover the source to find if there are self-interest involved. These 3 entities have spent several billion dollars trying to kill their competition because there are trillions of dollars involved. Cherry picking your data is required, and you must fund main stream media who are willing to publish anything for profits.
Does anyone know or care about the subsidies that oil companies and drillers have gotten for a century?


Here is some of my real world numbers:
99% of the time, I use my dryer 220 plug to charge my model Y overnight when the rates are the cheapest. Even on the road I can go from 20% to 80% in 15 minutes paying about $12, rather than $60. That's good for around 270 miles. 330 miles at 100%.
My software shows degradation at 2% after 2 years; with most of that occurring during the first couple of months. Charging from 0% to 100% kills batteries. I don't do that. Many EV's have already reached 500,000 miles and still going. Some have already hit 1,000,000 miles on one battery.
The worst case is Uber drivers hitting 20% degradation after 200,000 miles because they supercharge to 100% twice a day.
Tesla considers 20% degradation replaceable under warranty. Even those used 80% batteries are fantastic when then are used for household storage needs. 80% EV battery is still enormous storage. Fill them at night when 1/4 the price for the electricity. Use it during the day.
Even if a battery pack went to 0%, Redwood Materials is currently salvaging 97% of the rare earth metals for reuse in new batteries. They predict that by 2038, mining may no longer be needed with tens of millions of EV's on the roads which can be recycled. It is an inaccurate statement to assert that used batteries are worthless. Knowingly writing that, is a lie.

Mileage calculation is the same for ICE and EV. It depends on the speed, the wind, the weight, the tires, the temperature, the use of A/C and heating... It depends on .....
I get 330 miles when I drive 65 mph. I get about 300 miles at 75 mph. I get over 400 miles when I drive 40 mph.
It's hard keeping your foot off the fuel when you're driving a jet.

Tesla software is at least a generation or more ahead of all the other manufacturers. I have never had range anxiety with Tesla because it continually updates and estimates on the navigation map the percentage of charge with which I will arrive. No thinking required. I love the free Destination chargers at many hotels. Hilton just bought hundreds.
There is a new measure being used E-mgp or Electric miles per gallon to enable comparisons to ICE. It showed mine at over 120 Empg. I haven't gone to a gas station in 2 years. Yea! Yea! Yea, it's great! Whoever wrote that gas stations are everywhere shouldn't have written that as if it was a good thing.
Gas stations are smelly, dirty, and dangerous. It's a gift from god to be done with them.


I get my insurance directly from Tesla because it tracks my Safety Score every second I drive. $57/month.
It can be humiliating to discover all the alerts the software stores on your driving; following to close, speeding in corner, hard braking, inattention...

Safety
Million Miles between crashes: best to worst
Tesla in full self-driving FSD traveled 3.2 million miles.
Tesla manual without using FSD traveled 0.60 million miles.
Waymo traveled between crashes 0.50 million miles.
The national average in 2021 was 0.19 million on surface streets. Humans are pretty poor drivers.
Cruise, however, traveled merely 0.04 million miles before a crash. Just had permits cancelled by the state of California.

Over 75 years, I've owned or driven almost everything out there depending on my needs; trucks, suvs, vets, MG's, muscle cars... The model Y is so far beyond ICE that it has to have it's own category. It is pure FUN. Not comparable so not describable.
For those of you still using a slide rule, you should really try a computer. For those who have never driven an EV, but hate them with a passion, you really should try a computer with wheels.

It's about the software for me, not the means of propulsion.


Prescut

NOPE..........Still will NEVER buy one........Cut your heat/AC on i 100 degree weather or 10 degrees in the winter...........See what that does to your statistics........Please show REAL data on the ev's that went 500,000 miles....I want the name of the owner-company/type of car/where it is located and other articles on this paticular vehicle.
 
I will admit that my EV resistance is based primarily against government mandates and federal subsidies. I just do not accept being forced or nagged very well.

Agreed. I also don't like rich people telling me what to do. There aren't any richer folks than the gas and oil billionaires; they hate EVs like poison. They really don't mind sending someone else's kids to die for their oil wells, though - watch that at close range and see how you like it.

I'll admit to a certain amount of oppositional defiant disorder.
 
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Most of you don't want to hear it, haters can just move on.

I followed the link from our OP. That wasn't a research study, it was an advertisement.

Quote:
"The foundation is a conservative think tank that according to 2012 tax filings was funded predominantly by Exxon Mobil, Chevron and the Koch brothers. The organization, according to the New York Times, has been attempting for years to promote fossil fuels while inciting a pullback in America's transition to renewable energy. "
"Inciting" is the understatement of the year.

It's usually appropriate to discover the source to find if there are self-interest involved. These 3 entities have spent several billion dollars trying to kill their competition because there are trillions of dollars involved. Cherry picking your data is required, and you must fund main stream media who are willing to publish anything for profits.
Does anyone know or care about the subsidies that oil companies and drillers have gotten for a century?


Here is some of my real world numbers:
99% of the time, I use my dryer 220 plug to charge my model Y overnight when the rates are the cheapest. Even on the road I can go from 20% to 80% in 15 minutes paying about $12, rather than $60. That's good for around 270 miles. 330 miles at 100%.
My software shows degradation at 2% after 2 years; with most of that occurring during the first couple of months. Charging from 0% to 100% kills batteries. I don't do that. Many EV's have already reached 500,000 miles and still going. Some have already hit 1,000,000 miles on one battery.
The worst case is Uber drivers hitting 20% degradation after 200,000 miles because they supercharge to 100% twice a day.
Tesla considers 20% degradation replaceable under warranty. Even those used 80% batteries are fantastic when then are used for household storage needs. 80% EV battery is still enormous storage. Fill them at night when 1/4 the price for the electricity. Use it during the day.
Even if a battery pack went to 0%, Redwood Materials is currently salvaging 97% of the rare earth metals for reuse in new batteries. They predict that by 2038, mining may no longer be needed with tens of millions of EV's on the roads which can be recycled. It is an inaccurate statement to assert that used batteries are worthless. Knowingly writing that, is a lie.

Mileage calculation is the same for ICE and EV. It depends on the speed, the wind, the weight, the tires, the temperature, the use of A/C and heating... It depends on .....
I get 330 miles when I drive 65 mph. I get about 300 miles at 75 mph. I get over 400 miles when I drive 40 mph.
It's hard keeping your foot off the fuel when you're driving a jet.

Tesla software is at least a generation or more ahead of all the other manufacturers. I have never had range anxiety with Tesla because it continually updates and estimates on the navigation map the percentage of charge with which I will arrive. No thinking required. I love the free Destination chargers at many hotels. Hilton just bought hundreds.
There is a new measure being used E-mgp or Electric miles per gallon to enable comparisons to ICE. It showed mine at over 120 Empg. I haven't gone to a gas station in 2 years. Yea! Yea! Yea, it's great! Whoever wrote that gas stations are everywhere shouldn't have written that as if it was a good thing.
Gas stations are smelly, dirty, and dangerous. It's a gift from god to be done with them.


I get my insurance directly from Tesla because it tracks my Safety Score every second I drive. $57/month.
It can be humiliating to discover all the alerts the software stores on your driving; following to close, speeding in corner, hard braking, inattention...

Safety
Million Miles between crashes: best to worst
Tesla in full self-driving FSD traveled 3.2 million miles.
Tesla manual without using FSD traveled 0.60 million miles.
Waymo traveled between crashes 0.50 million miles.
The national average in 2021 was 0.19 million on surface streets. Humans are pretty poor drivers.
Cruise, however, traveled merely 0.04 million miles before a crash. Just had permits cancelled by the state of California.

Over 75 years, I've owned or driven almost everything out there depending on my needs; trucks, suvs, vets, MG's, muscle cars... The model Y is so far beyond ICE that it has to have it's own category. It is pure FUN. Not comparable so not describable.
For those of you still using a slide rule, you should really try a computer. For those who have never driven an EV, but hate them with a passion, you really should try a computer with wheels.

It's about the software for me, not the means of propulsion.


Prescut
Can you please tell me what the HECK "hate" has to do with anything in this context?

It seems that the knee-jerk reaction these days is to label any and all disagreement with one's opinion as "hate".

Do you even know what it really means to HATE something? Or is that just a convenient, negative, pejorative label you automatically apply indiscriminately to anyone who disagrees with you?

Enough of the hyperbole. If you have to resort to that level of emotionalism, it is obvious that your arguments are too week to stand on their own logical merits.

Gimme a break...
 
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That's an interesting read...

...but fuel cost isn't the only factor. However, we are seeing a few all electric vehicles here. Probably more than I know about because all we notice is the 'thumbtack' on the Tesla medallion. Those are easy to pick out in traffic.:D

One day, maybe. In the meantime I think I see a hybrid in our future. Beyond that, who knows???
 
I will admit that my EV resistance is based primarily against government mandates and federal subsidies. I just do not accept being forced or nagged very well.

I'm with you on that, especially at this point in the game.
I've been working for Google for a while. We make use of a lot of EVs both inside and outside the facilities.
Some specimens are real troopers, highlighting how reliable the EV can be.
Most, however, are high maintenance drama queens, highlighting how the industry is out to make a fast buck.
The factory service vehicles sent to fix these smoldering piles of it are gas powered. That's no accident.

Returning to the few that work, if the build quality is there, they can be remarkable.
No valves to burn, piston rings to wear, heads to warp, in fact, you lose nearly every failure point that has ever plagued ICE. You even avoid transmission problems because you no longer need one.
just as some electric industrial machinery has provided service beyond the 70 year mark, the potential for longevity is there for the EV.
In theory, the car gifted to your kid at a sweet 16 party would have a very good chance of carrying them to their retirement party.
That is, of course, if the full equation is there for this to happen.
 
I love the idea of an EV. It's just an idea though, not very practical at this point. Anyone who thinks this is a solution to their perception of "global warming" is foolish.

One (and only one) of the problems I have is that the Gubmint has full control of the power grid, and if you say something they don't like they could shut you off.
 
One (and only one) of the problems I have is that the Gubmint has full control of the power grid, and if you say something they don't like they could shut you off.

And a privately owned power system couldn't also
do that to you? Don't pay your bill and see.

But whatever, this thread is full of amusing statements
by some of the world's finest fulminators. :cool:
 
Agreed. I also don't like rich people telling me what to do. There aren't any richer folks than the gas and oil billionaires; they hate EVs like poison. They really don't mind sending someone else's kids to die for their oil wells, though - watch that at close range and see how you like it.

I'll admit to a certain amount of oppositional defiant disorder.

On the contrary, they love them. More load for the grid that's being stuffed full of wind and solar- all of which needs gas turbine backup.

So called "green" energy is green all right- cash money green.
 
Maybe. I know we have a few thousand troops in Iraq now; oddly, more than a dozen major international oil companies are involved in Iraqi oil production there. U.S. and European oil majors include Exxon Mobil, Occidental Petroleum, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, and Total S.A.

We killed a few hundred Russians in Syria at the Battle of Kasham, also known as the Battle of Conoco (Oil) Fields in 2018. Russian newspaper Kommersant, citing Russian military and contractor sources, reported pro-government forces were attempting to capture the Conoco (locally called Al Tabiyeh) gas field. Check for yourself.

Almost the same as buying stock in wind energy, no doubt.
 
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Maybe. I know we have a few thousand troops in Iraq now; oddly, more than a dozen major international oil companies are involved in Iraqi oil production there. U.S. and European oil majors include Exxon Mobil, Occidental Petroleum, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, and Total S.A.

We killed a few hundred Russians in Syria at the Battle of Kasham, also known as the Battle of Conoco (Oil) Fields in 2018. Check for yourself.

Almost the same as buying stock in wind energy, no doubt.

Smoke and mirrors as your usual MO
 
Let me know when they make an EV with enough torque to tow a 5,000 trailer including launching-retrieval, gets 500 miles per charge takes 10 minutes to charge from empty and lasts for a minimum of 1,000 charging cycles. Top speed 100 mph.
Then I'll buy one.
I have no doubt that at some point in the future that time will come but until then, I tell the government to bugger off.
 
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