Things Change

[biku324]

I grew up with WWII Pacific Theater veteran great-uncles in the family; imagine my surprise to see today that Japan, our economically strongest Pacific ally near China, is selling 10 Mogami-class destroyers to Australia in it's first post-war sale of the kind.

Things change.

Australia will upgrade its navy with 11 frigates from Japan, Australian Defense Minister Richard Marles said on Tuesday.

"This is clearly the biggest defense-industry agreement that has ever been struck between Japan and Australia," Marles said.

The 10 billion Australian dollar ($6.5 billion or €5.6 billion) deal saw Mitsubishi Heavy Industries awarded the tender to supply Mogami-class warships, beating out Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems. https://www.dw.com/en/australia-to-buy-11-advanced-warships-from-japan/a-73528732

 

[Onomea]

Yep. My father fought in the Pacific in WWII as well. Then I spent most of my adult life in Japan, marrying and having kids, and now grandkids, there...

It's only been very recently, beginning 2014, with further revisons loosening export control in 2023 and 2024, that Japan has changed its laws so that it allows itself to export defense items/weapons platforms.

 

[dockmurgw]

Yes, things change...it started with Perry Mason starring in a Godzilla movie.

 

[biku324]

Yep. My father fought in the Pacific in WWII as well. Then I spent most of my adult life in Japan, marrying and having kids, and now grandkids, there...

It's only been very recently, beginning 2014, with further revisons loosening export control in 2023 and 2024, that Japan has changed its laws so that it allows itself to export defense items/weapons platforms.

The Japanese aid program JICA has provided the Philippine Coast Guard a number of good vessels and training over the past 10 years as well.

 

[65-2x2]

My two uncles that served in the Pacific, and were both seriously wounded, are rolling over in their graves.

 

[S&WHunter]

It's all about the Benjamin's, Baby.
(Or whoever's picture is on their currency.)

 

[WR Moore]

It was long ago in an economics class where the prof pointed out that losing WWII let Germany and Japan build their industries from near ground up without having to deal with the issues of what we'd now call "legacy manufacturing". I got a first person example of this decades later. In the 80's, I was working for a fortune 500 company and most of the machine tools in that plant had plaques that said "Made to the Standards of the War Production Board". There was exactly ONE modern machine tool. I've always regretted not taking a camera in and taking pictures of some stuff-still in use-that dated to early 1900's-if not before.

 

[taz666]

The whole world is spending too much on military equipment.
President Eisenhower spoke about the cost to society.
https://harpers.org/2007/11/eisenhower-on-the-opportunity-cost-of-defense-spending/

 

[SMSgt]

The whole world is spending too much on military equipment.
President Eisenhower spoke about the cost to society.
https://harpers.org/2007/11/eisenhower-on-the-opportunity-cost-of-defense-spending/

Crazy, right? Iphones, Nike sneakers, and blue hair dye are far more important.

 

[NYlakesider]

It was long ago in an economics class where the prof pointed out that losing WWII let Germany and Japan build their industries from near ground up without having to deal with the issues of what we'd now call "legacy manufacturing". I got a first person example of this decades later. In the 80's, I was working for a fortune 500 company and most of the machine tools in that plant had plaques that said "Made to the Standards of the War Production Board". There was exactly ONE modern machine tool. I've always regretted not taking a camera in and taking picture of some stuff-still in use-that dated to early 1900's-if not before.

I can remember as a kid some items came from Japan and was marked "Made in occupied Japan!''

 

[Rudi]

Australia is buying attack submarines from us. That whole neighborhood is arming up. China wants to control the world, and will if not kept in check.

 

[LVSteve]

Australia is buying attack submarines from us. That whole neighborhood is arming up. China wants to control the world, and will if not kept in check.

This. Thank goodness the Japanese have had the good sense to change their laws and have the industrial capacity to supply the Aussies with what they need. There was never a chance the US was going to supply any ships due to lack of industrial capacity. Worse, the USN can never get ships on time and on budget thanks to continual specification drift and the resulting rising costs.

 

[Rustyt1953]

As the old spiritual says: "Ain't gonna study war no more".

 

[S-W4EVER]

My Dad was in the Korean War and I went to Korea in 1973, twenty years after the ceasefire and it was like a third world country.

When I got off the Northwest Orient airliner at Osan AB there was a ROKAF F-86 parked off the runway as well as a halftrack. (I flew home a couple years later on Flying Tigers Airlines.)

Fast forward fifty years. Now Korea builds their own weapons, in fact they’re exporting tanks to Poland. They also build fighter jets and submarines.

Meanwhile the US is in decline, submarines wait for years before they get around to overhauling them. I guess a lot of young people in this country have gotten too comfortable being paid to do nothing other than to bother other people…

 

[Onomea]

This. Thank goodness the Japanese have had the good sense to change their laws and have the industrial capacity to supply the Aussies with what they need. There was never a chance the US was going to supply any ships due to lack of industrial capacity. Worse, the USN can never get ships on time and on budget thanks to continual specification drift and the resulting rising costs.

There was a big brouhaha between the US and France several years ago when the Aussies backed out of a contract with the French for conventional subs and contracted with the US for nuclear subs.

The French were absolutely livid, saying they were willing to supply nuclear subs as well, that the Aussies had no business abrogating their contract with the French, and that the US, as an ally, had no business encouraging the Aussies to switch.

After all this, I read in the paper the other day that the US was now considering delaying the Aussie contract because we need more subs ourselves and we have limited capacity to produce them.

If that comes to pass the French will certainly be pleased to get back into it, but it will be yet another blow to US credibility (or what is left of it) with our allies...

 

[fiasconva]

Wonder where they'll put the "Made in Japan" logo's.

 

[biku324]

Except for a data plate on each functional room (bridge, engine, steering room, HVAC) the one I saw had nothing on it to indicate make. But that was 2017 - things change.