I bought some Rainier 125 gr plated for .38 spcl and found them to be closer to .356. They had lousy accuracy in my .38 guns so I loaded them as 9mm projectiles and they performed very well. When I buy plated I only buy Xtreme now.
Thinking about changing to all copper plated bullets
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I bought some Rainier 125 gr plated for .38 spcl and found them to be closer to .356. They had lousy accuracy in my .38 guns so I loaded them as 9mm projectiles and they performed very well. When I buy plated I only buy Xtreme now.
Thanks,
A lot of learning is required here. A few years ago I was wondering if I should jump on the Moly craze. I'm glad I didn't.
A lot of learning is required here. A few years ago I was wondering if I should jump on the Moly craze. I'm glad I didn't.
venomballistics
Member
AveragEd
Member
I've wondered why with modern materials, they couldn't lube a bullet with something cleaner, not like Alox or any of the stuff people have been using .
I recently started using cast bullets from Precision Delta with their "match lube" and find them clean to handle and shoot. In fact, I had to call when I opened the first box because it didn't look like the bullets were lubed at all (check the photos on their website and you'll see what I mean). But they don't generate a lot of smoke indoors and leave no lead in my barrels.
Ed
Jamesatrange
Member
I enjoyed reading your posts. I've learned many suppliers that I didn't know we're out there selling bullets. I currently buy from a local guy but his lube is blue in the grooves but I have the same issue with waxy feeling ammo that gums up my cylinders and makes much more clean up work. Also smokes quite a bit as well. I like hearing intelligent advice from friendly folks willing to share their knowledge. I'm a self taught reloaded so always room to learn and I am from you all. Thanks
venomballistics
Member
I'm thinking those are swaged, and the lube is the Corbin concoction.
Certainly an acceptable option.
A light roll crimp on chanellured bullets or a taper crimp using any mfrs. taper crimp die works as well.
AveragEd
Member
They probably are swaged - now that you mention it, I looked for and didn't see a mold line on them. Either way, they shoot well.
Ed
venomballistics
Member
Oh you fiend, you just set my brain into wander mode and set up for another string of experiments just after I got everything loaded.
At this rate, I may as well pack a cooler and a sleeping bag for the range.
At this rate, I may as well pack a cooler and a sleeping bag for the range.
NJM15
Member
Extreme or Rainier both good Extreme a little less expensive, lower shipping cost too sometimes they have a free shipping offer. I have used thousands with good results.
Moe Mentum
Member
As long as the price for plated is close to lead, i will use plated. But when the price jumps for plated again, I will go back to lead.
M3Stuart
Member
I'm sticking with lead for .38 Special, and, plated for .357 mag and 9mm. I made the switch about a year ago; the .357 & 9mm pressures cause leading. In my loads anyway. Noticed that the plated bullets were more accurate at the higher velocities too.
I'd have to disagree with you on price though. I don't think it's that close (or I'm so broke that I care about the difference
); .38 Special (MBC) LSWC's are $35/500 or 7 cents. Berry's plated - on sale even - are 15 cents a piece. That's $8/100 difference. $12/100 total for lead vs. $20/100 for plated by my calculations. Sure, you're paying $10 per box of 50 vs. $22 at the store. But you could be paying $6 a 'box' of 50.
I'd shoot all lead if it didn't have issues at higher pressures.
I'd have to disagree with you on price though. I don't think it's that close (or I'm so broke that I care about the difference
); .38 Special (MBC) LSWC's are $35/500 or 7 cents. Berry's plated - on sale even - are 15 cents a piece. That's $8/100 difference. $12/100 total for lead vs. $20/100 for plated by my calculations. Sure, you're paying $10 per box of 50 vs. $22 at the store. But you could be paying $6 a 'box' of 50.I'd shoot all lead if it didn't have issues at higher pressures.
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venomballistics
Member
When the shortages started, I stocked up on lead bullets with the conventional lube in groove. They are really smoky on indoor ranges (ventilated range is kind of an oxymoron). I've wondered why with modern materials, they couldn't lube a bullet with something cleaner, not like Alox or any of the stuff people have been using. Lo and behold, now they have ADVANCED COATINGS. I'd coat the bullets I have but they are already lubed.
Boil Em in water to float the lube off and try the piglet method.
If it sticks, you win.
Moonman
Member
NRA DOC,
I believe the Xtreme deal WITH FREE SHIPPING,
is for THE MONTH OF AUG.
QUOTE=NRA DOC;138060802]I just bought 500 Xtreme copper plated 158gn bullets for $42 and there was no shipping. This seems to be very competitive with cast.[/QUOTE]
I believe the Xtreme deal WITH FREE SHIPPING,
is for THE MONTH OF AUG.
QUOTE=NRA DOC;138060802]I just bought 500 Xtreme copper plated 158gn bullets for $42 and there was no shipping. This seems to be very competitive with cast.[/QUOTE]
Rex Goliath
Member
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Aahh, ease of cleaning. After buying an old gun (pre-war...WWI that is) I found myself taking a research journey to learn about Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18 recognized by many as the revised formula reinvented on the battlefield by Major C.E. (Ed) Hatcher in WWII at the Battle of the Bulge. A formula based on proven principles incorporating 2 polar and 2 non-polar solvents.I went to FMJ for accuracy and easy cleaning.
Commonly known as Ed's Red (ER), It is adapted from one in Hatcher's notebook for "Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18" but substituting equivalent modern materials. The following is paraphrased from various web resources from my own journey looking for sperm oil. More on that oil in #2 below. Take the time to read to the very end for the nexus to copper and lead (as well as old time corrosive primer) fouling. Enjoy...
The original Ed Hatcher formula called for equal parts of four (4) ingredients. #'s 1 - 3 below are necessary + #'s 4 - 5 are optional.
1. > Pratts Astral Oil a.k.a. Kerosene/Diesel fuel. [Note: Pratts Astral Oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene] "K1" kerosene of the type normally sold for use in indoor space heaters.
2. > sperm oil [a.k.a. pre-WWII version of automatic transmission fluid (ATF). Jojoba oil and sperm (whale) oil are molecularly identical. Jojoba is technically a liquid wax. Today, a synthetic ATF includes organometallic antioxidants and surfactants found in a branded substitute Drexon. [Drexon ATF, sperm oil and Jojoba oil are highly suitable as an all-purpose (C-L-P) cleaner-protectant-lubricant]. Note: sperm oil was a special kind of oil obtained from the head cavities of sperm whales. It is chemically different from ordinary whale oil, being mostly liquid wax. It had different properties and applications than regular whale oil therefore was more expensive.
3. > "aliphatic mineral spirits," a.k.a. known simply as mineral spirits, alias turpentine; a petroleum based "safety solvent" used for thinning oil based paints and also widely used as an automotive parts cleaner. It is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol". Greek root word (aleiphar, fat, oil) also known as a non-aromatic (unlike acetone below) it will NOT evaporate, nor liberate any volatile organic compounds (VOCs) into the air.
4. > acetone; an (optional) ER ingredient, is an aromatic organic solvent which provides an aggressive, fast-acting solvent for caked powder residues. Caution! It is NOT to be used in enclosed spaces lacking ventilation since acetone will evaporate, liberating volatile organic compounds (VOCs) into the atmosphere unless containers are kept tightly closed when not in use. The Battlefield ER [alternative for "Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18" is still effective without the acetone, but just NOT as fast acting].
5. > Lastly, another optional ingredient, 200 grams of anhydrous lanolin added per liter. Lanolin is a lipid/fat produced by the sebaceous glands of sheep. Anhydrous from the Greek root word meaning "without water".
Apparently from the chemistry, it is unlikely there is anything in Ed's Red which chemically "dissolves" copper fouling in bores, but it may do a better job removing carbon and primer residue than anything else which is "safe and commonly" available.
Reportedly, exclusive use of "ER" reduces copper deposits, because it removes the old impacted powder fouling which is left by other cleaners, which reduces the abrasion and adhesion of jacket metal to the bore surface, leaving a cleaner surface condition which reduces subsequent fouling.
The experience of others indicates that "ER" will actually remove metal fouling...if you let it "soak"... so, it is actually the surfactants which do the jobe. Be patient.
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venomballistics
Member
I went to FMJ for accuracy and easy cleaning.
I went to powder coating.
Cleans up easier than jacketed, and is far less expensive.
