Thinking about upgrading presses

[JJP161]

I am a fairly new reloader, I have been reloading for about a year and reload .40 S&W and .45 ACP. I'm just starting to load 9mm and plan on adding .223 and .308 in the next year or so. I currently use a Lee Classic Turret Press that I really like. The only thing that is frustrating is the powder drops. Depending on the powder they can vary greatly sometimes. As an example I will use the appropriate disk to throw 6.9 gr. of power pistol and will find over the course of 50 rounds it may throw anywhere from 6.6 to 7.3. The 7.3 being a problem because it's over the max load.

The only other issue I run into is a variance of OAL which I believe is more my OCD kicking in than anything. If I'm set up to load .40 S&W to 1.125" I may end up with a variance of 1.123" - 1.127" which makes sense because many times the brass varies that much and even in a box of factory ammo you can find that much variance.

So anyway, overall I'm happy with the Lee Classic Turret Press and the speed at which I can produce ammo. I guess what I'm curious to know is if I upgraded to a Hornady Lock-N-Load® AP press would I see more consistent powder throws and an overall higher quality reloads than I'm producing now. I know it is capable of producing a lot more ammo an hour but I'm not wanting to do that. I like taking my time so the speed is not a factor.

Thank-you in advance for the advice and insights,
Joe

 

[moxie]

Your OALs are looking good, but your powder variance is a concern.

Instead of "upgrading" to the LnL you might consider "downgrading" to a single stage press. Use a separate powder measure. Use a hand primer. You now have total control over quality and safety. Yes the pace is slower, but once you master the process and develop a rhythm, production happens.

As we say in the munitions business: safe, reliable, and on time.

And, as Hannah said, never confuse motion with progress.

 

[RussellD]

If you dont want to go full progressive, check out the Redding T7 turret press. If you wish to step into a progressive the Dillon 550 is a great choice.

 

[ozo]

" As an example I will use the appropriate disk to throw 6.9 gr. of power pistol and will find over the course of 50 rounds it may throw anywhere from 6.6 to 7.3. The 7.3 being a problem because it's over the max load. "---jjp161

I went from a beam scale to a Dillon [yrs ago] so I don't know anything about the Lee, Hornady, etc. powder measuring devices, but it really makes a difference in the Dillon to use ball type powders. Wafer, tubular,.....they work, but not consistently.
Power Pistol is a wafer type powder. Maybe it's the powder, not your Lee, IDK, you will need to ask someone familiar with that.
I quit using some of the go-to powders for that reason when I got a Dillon. I did not know how I was ever gonna survive without Unique for my .357magnum......but there are so many powder choices, it was simple.

 

[jwalts27]

I am a fairly new reloader, I have been reloading for about a year and reload .40 S&W and .45 ACP. I'm just starting to load 9mm and plan on adding .223 and .308 in the next year or so. I currently use a Lee Classic Turret Press that I really like. The only thing that is frustrating is the powder drops. Depending on the powder they can vary greatly sometimes. As an example I will use the appropriate disk to throw 6.9 gr. of power pistol and will find over the course of 50 rounds it may throw anywhere from 6.6 to 7.3. The 7.3 being a problem because it's over the max load.

The only other issue I run into is a variance of OAL which I believe is more my OCD kicking in than anything. If I'm set up to load .40 S&W to 1.125" I may end up with a variance of 1.123" - 1.127" which makes sense because many times the brass varies that much and even in a box of factory ammo you can find that much variance.

So anyway, overall I'm happy with the Lee Classic Turret Press and the speed at which I can produce ammo. I guess what I'm curious to know is if I upgraded to a Hornady Lock-N-Load® AP press would I see more consistent powder throws and an overall higher quality reloads than I'm producing now. I know it is capable of producing a lot more ammo an hour but I'm not wanting to do that. I like taking my time so the speed is not a factor.

Thank-you in advance for the advice and insights,
Joe

Are you using the Lee Auto-disk? I use that on my press it is always dead on. im guessing the powder you use doesn't meter too well. Only issue I have ever had is when I load .223 using IMR3031 it is way off due to the powder being a stick powder. If I use any other flake,spherical or ball powder its dead on.

 

[JJP161]

I use the Lee Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure with the powder through die mounted on my press. I use the Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure Disks or the Auto-Disk Adjustable Powder Charge Bar.

Yes I do notice that some powders are more consistent throws and that keeping the hopper at least half full helps out as well.

 

[ozo]

If you dont want to go full progressive, check out the Redding T7 turret press. If you wish to step into a progressive the Dillon 550 is a great choice.

The Dillon 550/550B is not a progressive, not in a true sense.
You can easily use it as a single stage, must advance it by hand, and never will have full progressive press speed.

If you wished to go 'Blue" as Russell suggests, he is helping your wallet directing you towards the Dillon 550 [$250] as it DOES NOT come with the automatic priming or powder systems like the Dillon 550B [$440]. You can upgrade the 550 to a 550B later if you choose. I would start with the 550B myself.

Either way, you still have the wafer and tubular powder situation......which is your main concern at this time.
Someone else will have to assure you that a Lee or a Hornady will throw those powders consistently.

 

[jwalts27]

I had problems with the Auto-Disk Adjustable Powder Charge Bar being accurate, so I just use the disks instead. I find that Unique, Win231, Bullseye, HP38, AA #5 and Power Pistol work really well.

 

[ozo]

"and that keeping the hopper at least half full helps out as well."--jjp

But that's not a good way too load, is it?
Where is the cut-off point? Still guessing, right?

I'm not saying use a powder, don't use a powder.....if it's one you really like, but if that is a metering problem from the type of powder, and you change presses, and still have the problem, what have you gained?
If you just want a new press , I can dig that, DUDE !!!!!! But I know you are smart and can find a better reason for getting one. J/K

 

[x10x10]

in my almost 40 years of reloading I've owned Lee 1000, Lee Cframe, Hornady projector, Dillon SDB, Dillon 550, dillon 650, and RCBS single stage press'

After loading less than 10k rounds on the lee's they were complete junk wore out and inconsistant,

I only use the single stages for special brass operations and such,

Hornady Projector was a good progressive press but it was a bit finicky on the brass kicker, primer feed, and primer swing arm, over all I rate it a solid grade of a B

I went to a dillon SDB for my first dillon press, loaded 10's of thousands of rounds, wore out a few parts but dillon replaced everyting at no cost when it broke, I rate the press a A- (only because the 550 is an A and the 650 gets an A++++++++++)

if you shoot 1k rounds a year get the SDB for pistol only

if you shoot 1-2k rounds of pistol and some rifle then the hornady or better yet the dillon 550

if you shoot 3k rounds of pistol a year get teh 650,

the expense is only once. The time you get back from the Dillon reliability smoothness and speed you will enjoy more time shooting ect.

 

[ozo]

May I suggest......
Get one of your manuals out, and a highliter pen.....
go to the 'Powders' section [let me look at one....tick-tick]
Lyman 49th begins on page 62. Read and refresh your brain
on propellants. Then when you get to each mfg and what type they make, highlite all the ball powders. Make a list and then search thru the data on the calibers/loads you are most interested in, and the related components you like/prefer.....and find the data that suits your application best. At least you will know what powders you can substitute in ball type, whether you can find any to purchase is another story, but at least you will have your list in your wallet. I'm not saying ball type is the answer for all ......but it is notorious for consistent metering.

 

[SgtLumpy]

I improved my Lee powder drops, micrometer bar not the disks, quite a bit by lubricating the whole thing with powdered graphite. Inside the plastic walls of the hopper, into the drop portion, the rails, the cavity that fills with powder etc. I think that makes things both more slippery AND reduces static.

I rub the outside of the hopper with a damp fingertip to reduce static.

Keep the hopper full, tap it a bunch as you load it to get the powder to settle.

Run 10 or 20 drops through it as you set it up (without cartridges) to get the thing flowing.

Use ball powders whenever possible.

I load about 350 rounds of 38spc twice a week. Powder used to be within .3 with random or continuous checks. Now it's down to within .1


Sgt Lumpy

 

[Twoboxer]

Your original question was would a Hornady LnL AP improve powder drop and OAL consistency.

I started with a Lee Classic Turret and have since moved to a Hornady LnL Classic (for rifle) and a LnL AP for pistol and some 223 ammo. There is no doubt the Hornady Case Activated Powder Measure will improve your powder drops. It's extremely consistent, one of the best. Your OALs aren't that bad, but the Hornady will at least improve the concentricity of your ammo by completely eliminating the slop in the tool head.

You can easily put a Hornady Case Activated Powder Measure on your Lee Turret and gain that benefit. If you later decide to upgrade your production rate, you can buy an LnL AP which will have its own PM. Your first powder measure will be very useful by leaving it set up for (eg) rifle, and setting your new one for pistol. This saves changing out the rotor and metering insert when switching from one to the other.

 

[scooter123]

One of my primary considerations when considering a powder for bulk reloading is it's metering qualities. I use the Lee Perfect powder measures because they are cheap enough that I can dedicate a measure to a specific recipe. For example I have measures for 38 spl., 40 S&W, and 45 ACP C clamped to my bench and labeled for the powder and caliber they are set for. Powders that don't consistently meter within 1/10 grain with my Lee measures all get hand weighed for each charge.

Now for my go to list of powders I've used that meter well.

First, there is IMR SR7625, a great powder for target loads in the 40 and 45 ACP. However it's extremely position sensitive in the 38 spl. It's very clean shooting in these calibers and a rather low flash powder. Downside is that it's a fast burning powder that won't generate big velocity numbers but for basic target shooting it's a nice soft shooting powder.

Second, is Accurate #5, a powder that is currently near impossible to find so I'm "hoarding" the 2 lbs. I have for use in 45 ACP SD energy level practice ammo. In test loads I've found it also works quite well in 38 spl. and 40 caliber and if I could get it by the keg it would probably be my primary powder choice. It's clean, low flash, and produces good velocity in most calibers and is a velocity leader in the 45 ACP.

Third is a new to me powder chosen specifically for 38 spl. is VV 3N37. It meters quite well, is not position sensitive, and is rather efficient in terms of velocity produced. Which means it's a slower burning powder that produce respect worthy velocities in a low pressure caliber like the 38 special.

As for what doesn't work in my meters, Unique is one that meters poorly. In a test batch of 30 throws I saw loads that varied by as much as 1/2 grain, way too much for a handgun load. Other poor metering powders are any of the stick Rifle powders such as Accurate 2495 or IMR 4064. However, with a bolt action 308 I really don't mind trickling up a charge on a scale.

 

[old&slow]

I've never used a Lee press or Power Pistol. So, can not help there.

I use a Dillon 550 and with powders like W231 , HS-6 and others
I get a very consistent powder weight drop. Plus or minus a tenth of a grain usually.

OAL on my press does vary a few thousands as you describe.

 

[RichardDBeck]

I've got a Lee Loadmaster that I really like. Having said that there are better presses out there. they were just out of my price range. I would just recommend you get one that auto indexes.

 

[dickttx]

In order for your Lee PAD to drop consistent charges you need to insure that the disk hole is directly under the hole in the bottom of the hopper when the ram is at the bottom, and that the disk hole is directly over the drop tube when the ram is at the top.
This is adjusted by screwing the expander/powder through/flair die in or out of the turret.
My PAD is boringly consistent on my LCT.
When I acquired a LnL AP I switched my Lee dies and PAD to it and it has the same consistency.
Of course, as the Lee PAD instructions say, the charges shown in their table are estimates only and you need to determine what the different holes actually throw with your powder.
With the OAL variations, you will note that the seating stem does not work on the nose of the bullet but on the ogilvy. Thus, any variance in the nose, which is quite common, will show up as as a difference in OAL, even though the distance from where the seating stem touched to the base of the case has not changed.

 

[carpriver]

I have been using the Lee Classic Turret Press for several years, I use mostly Accurate Powders. When I am developing a load I have checked the weight of the powder dropped from the holes on either side of the stated hole. This helps me get closer to the charge I want. normally the drops are + or - .1 of the stated measured amount. I also will use the charge bar.

 

[JJP161]

I improved my Lee powder drops, micrometer bar not the disks, quite a bit by lubricating the whole thing with powdered graphite. Inside the plastic walls of the hopper, into the drop portion, the rails, the cavity that fills with powder etc. I think that makes things both more slippery AND reduces static.

I rub the outside of the hopper with a damp fingertip to reduce static.

Keep the hopper full, tap it a bunch as you load it to get the powder to settle.

Run 10 or 20 drops through it as you set it up (without cartridges) to get the thing flowing.

Use ball powders whenever possible.

I load about 350 rounds of 38spc twice a week. Powder used to be within .3 with random or continuous checks. Now it's down to within .1


Sgt Lumpy

Sgt Lumpy,

I will definitely give the powdered graphite a try and see if that helps. Thank you fery much Sgt.

 

[JJP161]

In order for your Lee PAD to drop consistent charges you need to insure that the disk hole is directly under the hole in the bottom of the hopper when the ram is at the bottom, and that the disk hole is directly over the drop tube when the ram is at the top.
This is adjusted by screwing the expander/powder through/flair die in or out of the turret.
My PAD is boringly consistent on my LCT.
When I acquired a LnL AP I switched my Lee dies and PAD to it and it has the same consistency.
Of course, as the Lee PAD instructions say, the charges shown in their table are estimates only and you need to determine what the different holes actually throw with your powder.
With the OAL variations, you will note that the seating stem does not work on the nose of the bullet but on the ogilvy. Thus, any variance in the nose, which is quite common, will show up as as a difference in OAL, even though the distance from where the seating stem touched to the base of the case has not changed.

Dickttx,

Thank you very much I will certainly adjust this as well. I haven't checked this in sometime so I will adjust it and load up some .45 ACP and see how it goes. Thank you as well.

Joe

 

[johnnymg]

JMO, but I would recommend a Dillon 550 or 650.

I have the LNL with case feeder and my brother has both Dillons. My LNL has been somewhat problematic compared to my brothers Dillons. Note, that all of the progressive presses are somewhat tricky to setup and get running 'right'.

good luck with whatever you get.
JohnG

 

[fredj338]

If the speed is not a factor, just stay where you are. Progressives are for speed, why they wre made. I am NOT a Lee guy, don't care for their stuff, but the turret press is a decent press. Their progressives are sad, but many like them becuase of cost. All produce the same level of ammo.
Your powder drops can be made better by switching to a an adjustable measure. It will give you more range. Don't let the OCD get to you on OAL, a variation of 0.005" is pretty normal, bullet noses vary that much & using mixed brass always causes minor variations.
The LNL is an ok press, I have run my buddy's a bit, & if you never want a case feeder & like auto indexing, go for it. You may have to tweek the priming system a bit, but it's workable. I like the 550 a lot, very versital & the manual indexing is no slower than the LNL. If yo umust have a case feeder, the 650 is a better press, hands down. Equipped the same as the LNL, it's less than $100 more & worth it IMO. Better priming, better case feeder. The powder measure is accurate to 0.1gr with all ball & most flake powders. Stick powders in ANY measure are going to cause issues.
In the long run, equip is cheap, even the best setup is a cup of coffee a month over 20yrs of reloading. Good equip will last long enough to pass on to your kids or grandkids.

 

[JJP161]

Ok I have to admit I am rather intrigued by the Dillon 650. But with that said trying to figure out what I need on the website is complicated and it seems that caliber changes are pretty complicated and time consuming on the 650. So I'm guessing I will be well over a $1000 for everything?

I load or plan on loading the following

40 S&W
45 ACP
9mm
.223
.308

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

If you dont want to go full progressive, check out the Redding T7 turret press. If you wish to step into a progressive the Dillon 550 is a great choice.

I up graded,IMHO, to a first addition REDDING turret years ago and have never been sorry. Priming is done off press as is powder-- I am sure the T7 IS JUST AS GOOD. I use a BOSS for my rifle loadings--

 

[TexasRider]

Ok I have to admit I am rather intrigued by the Dillon 650. But with that said trying to figure out what I need on the website is complicated and it seems that caliber changes are pretty complicated and time consuming on the 650. So I'm guessing I will be well over a $1000 for everything?

I load or plan on loading the following

40 S&W
45 ACP
9mm
.223
.308

Probably more than that depending on what you have already and/or what else you have to buy.

A 650 with the case feeder, a couple of shell plates, and some mild accessories will go over $1200 with out the dies and conversion kits.

But I would not let that change your mind as the 650 is a great machine.

If you load all of that on a regular basis I can see 2 650s in your future .

 

[TexasRider]

The caliber changes are not that tough. And one way to make them even easier is to purchase the separate priming systems and powder measures so it all goes on a set. It is also faster to change. It is also more expensive .

My next stop at Dillon is going to be the auto primer filler. Nice - but it cost a bit too.

 

[chief38]

I recently about 4 months ago upgraded from a Dillon Square Deal B that I had for 30 years to my new Dillon XL650. The only thing I am upset about is that it took me 30 years to do the upgrade! The machine is just wonderful, cranking out high quality and consistent ammo in record time. I would highly recommend it and think that it is a step above the Hornady presses - but admittedly that is a personal opinion.

I also have an RCBS Rock Chucker that I still use for 38-55 and 45-70 rifle cartridges. With those two cartridges I load only a few hundred a year and actually like loading them slowly and carefully as they do contain large amounts of powder. Since I only shoot a hundred or so of them per year there is no need for speed and I truly do enjoy doing those by hand. I even use a Lee Auto Primer tool to install new primers in them.

 

[blujax01]

...
So anyway, overall I'm happy with the Lee Classic Turret Press and the speed at which I can produce ammo. I guess what I'm curious to know is if I upgraded to a Hornady Lock-N-Load® AP press would I see more consistent powder throws and an overall higher quality reloads than I'm producing now. I know it is capable of producing a lot more ammo an hour but I'm not wanting to do that. I like taking my time so the speed is not a factor.

Thank-you in advance for the advice and insights,
Joe

No need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Keep the press if you are happy with it.

I believe the RCBS UniFlow powder measure is just the ticket. But, you must remember to "season" it like the instructions say. Open 'er up and put a pound through before you load anything. And make sure you get the one with the small cylinder (9002). The large cylinder Uniflow (9010) is for rifle loads, 15 - 115 gr., and the small cylinder conversion kit (9004) is a $35 add-on with a 6 week lead time.

$85 most places and sometimes RCBS has a rebate.

 

[Wee Hooker]

I had problems with the Auto-Disk Adjustable Powder Charge Bar being accurate, so I just use the disks instead. I find that Unique, Win231, Bullseye, HP38, AA #5 and Power Pistol work really well.

Agreed. I've been running LTC's since they came out and have a few observations .
Yes, The adjustable can give varying results. I've had much more consistent results with the disks. Even with a notoriously hard powder to measure like Clays (which is flaked) I can usually hold to within a tenth of a grain or so. That said, I fund a couple of secrets to help me get that accuracy.
First, Try to keep the powder measure topped off with a consistent reserve.
Use firm and quick strokes to run the press when ever possible. This shakes the powder measure a little with each stroke.
Try to position the measure so it swings outside of the turret radius. Again, this helps shake /settle the powder with each stroke.

I tuck a small strip of anti static dryer sheet into the hopper and capture the end between the hopper and cover.

I'd try these things and retest before getting another press.
Even then , there are ways to adapt other brand measures to the LTC.

 

[JJP161]

I haven't had a chance yet to try out all the great tips you guys have given me but will hopefully have a chance this week. Sounds like the OAL is within acceptable allowances and that the powder drops will get worked out with the tips you guys have given me. I do find that the disks give more consistent results but sometimes the disk is in between the grains I'm looking for so I try the charge bar. With that said I still really like the LCT press my biggest question was just overall quality of reloads. Is there really a noticeable quality difference in the ammo I will produce from a Lee or a Dillon or a Hornady? Or what are the advantages of say the Hornady over the Lee?

If I were to make a change I would probably lean towards the Hornady Lock-N-Load® AP just because of the price. I've seen them for $425 locally. One feature I do like with the Dillon and Hornady is the powder check. Is there a similar item available or adaptable for the LCT?