Third Model Single Shot Stuff--Olympic Barrels

[rct269]

There are two different Olympic Models---early and late.

The difference is the length of the chamber---the later version being approximately .025" longer to reduce the difficulty in loading (seating the cartridge).

My early one was #10617-----my later one was #11112. I never got any closer than that. I found no mention of this in N&J (the random notes on engineering changes). (It was interesting to note there was no difference in accuracy in a test I conducted.)

Does anybody know any better about when the change came about?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Boulder350]

Ralph,

I track a number of features on 3rd model perfected single shot, but not the Olympic chamber. Have never held a 3rd model so all my info comes from the internet. Most people out there don't know about the feature and they never check with an actual cartridge.

For example there is a gun listed on GB that states its a 3rd model perfected single shot with an Olympic chamber. They only got one item right in the description, it has a serial number on the barrel of 10681. The gun frame is actually a 38 DA revolver 4th model, has a barrel marked Model of 91 like a fist model single shot, has the rounded bottom of the barrel where the barrel meets the frame like the first model single shot, and has the rear sight with the screws in the back like a fist model. The serial number, 10681, on the barrel matches the latch so they are both clearly from a first model single shot.

If the gun actually has an Olympic chamber, its the lowest serial numbered first model barrel I have ever heard of with that feature. I asked if they have inserted a cartridge into the chamber to verify if it was and Olympic chamber, but they ignored that question, even though they were very helpful with my other questions.

 

[rct269]

Jinks had/has(??) a 1st Model with an Olympic barrel--so I'm told. That said, I don't know the first thing about it. The fact that he'd bother to take it home with him tells me it's for real.

I really hate to tell this story, but it happened----never mind my brain was in neutral for a good bit of it. I'd had 11112 since 1996, and I'd been carrying around a .22 Long Rifle cartridge ever since---looking for another one. Now it's the last Louisville show of 2000, and here's 10617. I try the cartridge. It sticks out too far. Now never mind it doesn't stick out near far enough to indicate the gun's chambered for .22 Short---but that was my knee-jerk reaction.

Then, to make matters worse, I call Jinks; and ask if they'd ever made an Olympic model in .22 Short. He gave me his stock reply----"They'd do anything anybody would pay them to do." I went home without the gun.

Fast forward to the last Louisville show of 2001. The same gun is back again. I figure God is looking out for dummies, and snatch it up.

Now I've measured everything for real. The chambers are clearly different, both for .22 Long Rifle (just like it says on the barrel), and 10617's is shorter than 11112's.

The letter arrives in early January 2002---confirms all this, tells of the many complaints about difficult loading---and goes on to tell about the Olympic feature being completely eliminated from the later Straight Lines.

All these fuss-budgets didn't know when they were well off! I did a test of the comparative accuracy of a standard 3rd Model, and the two different Olympics----25 rounds from each gun at 25 yards, seated, two hand hold with a rest----and I saved the wear and tear on my thumb by seating the rounds simply by closing the barrels. The standard model made for all 10's with some in the X ring, and both Olympics put every single round in the X ring.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Modelof1891]

Extra Short Olympic Chamber

Ralph,

The number 10933 (extra short olympic chamber) was shipped to Robert Nelson Hardware, Roanoke, VA Nov.28 1923 as a 10 inch barrel, blued, checkered walnut extension target grips.

The number 10346 3rd model single shot (olympic chamber) was shipped to New York Sporting Goods Dec. 11 1922.

After collecting the 1891's for years and finally putting together several groups of consecutive numbers, and competition shooters like Dr. Reginald Sayre, Joseph Wessons, Dr. Fred W. Powell, Dr. D.J. Brown, H.B.Wilson, George Chandler, John Penman Wood, Dr. William H. Armstrong, and C.L.Flannigan. Also the many different transitional models and combo sets. I am taking the time to enjoy these items and shoot some pictures.


I will post pictures soon of the first model single shot .22's in 6 inch, 8 inch, and 10 inch barrels. Also have the same in second model .22 single shots and the hardest ones to find were the third model single shots. Then in the .32 S&W caliber and .38 S&W caliber.

 

[rct269]

My 3rd Models in 6 and 8" were, on the one hand, acquired by dumb luck---and on the other hand by sweating blood!!

The 6" appeared in an auction catalog in late 1999---with a lousy picture---but it was a 6"!! I got it----and it was like NEW!!

The 8 inch versions seemed to be made of "unobtainium". I saw a fake at a SWCA annual meeting way back---Dallas maybe. There are 3-4 on the "Club Gun" list, and I'd about decided that's all there were. Then, out of a clear blue sky, a member from Arizona (?) who goes after Moose/Elk every year way up north called to tell me he'd stopped at a little gun shop in Utah on the way north---and they had a very nice 8"------and he'd snapped it up----and did I want it(?). I did!!!!! God was in his heaven, and all was right in the world!!----no more sweating blood!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[rct269]

And this little tid-bit to show you how popular 6" 3rd Models were:

#4807 was "------part of the production run of 31 units completed on May 9, 1911 and entered into the shipping vault on that date."

It "was shipped from the factory on November 11, 1915----."

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Modelof1891]

So this target pistol , 1 of 31 units placed in the vault when completed in 1911--- 6 inch barrel --- was so popular it was 4 1/2 years later before ordered and shipped?!?
If my calculations are correct, we could have purchased all of this run for less money than one 80% example now. Hmmmm

 

[ol777gunnerz]

add info

Besides the Olympic Chambered single shots done by Smith & Wesson, Harry Pope & A O Niedner did them on single shot pistols also. I have owned a fantastic Stevens Lord single shot & still own a Remington 1901 single shot with 22lr Olympic Chamber's done by Niedner Rifle Corp.

 

[rct269]

So this target pistol , 1 of 31 units placed in the vault when completed in 1911--- 6 inch barrel --- was so popular it was 4 1/2 years later before ordered and shipped?!?
If my calculations are correct, we could have purchased all of this run for less money than one 80% example now. Hmmmm

Yes---4 1/2 years!

Now when the 8" (4826) showed up my first thought was, "I wonder if these two guns were made on the same day?" Having had it beaten into our heads forever that the available records show only when any given gun was shipped, I asked anyway---figuring the worst that can happen is they don't know----just as we've been told all along. Well they knew!

They also knew about 4826. It wasn't made on the same day. It was in the production run completed on June 21, 1911----and it was shipped on June 24, 1911. This snappy service arises from the fact it was a special order for a single unit.

And after all this they gave me what I took as a mild scolding for asking questions we're not supposed to ask. That went like this: "This certainly establishes that they were not produced in the same production lot of Perfected Single Shot Pistols." I'm like yes, it certainly does-----most certainly!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[rct269]

Besides the Olympic Chambered single shots done by Smith & Wesson, Harry Pope & A O Niedner did them on single shot pistols also. I have owned a fantastic Stevens Lord single shot & still own a Remington 1901 single shot with 22lr Olympic Chamber's done by Niedner Rifle Corp.

It has been my not so good fortune to have never seen neither a Pope nor a Niedner conversion available for sale in the mere 67 years I've been fooling with these things.(!!)

Ralph Tremaine