Thoughts on home preparations

[Golddollar]

About a month ago, I asked dealers/reps/installers for Generac, Kohler and Cummings to come out to my place for a site survey and estimates, installed, for a whole house/back up generator as advertised on their manufacturers sites.

About a week or so later, the Kohler rep showed up and did his thing. I got his estimate two weeks or so after that, last Monday. If I were to contract with them today, would be able to get a Kohler installed by winter or maybe early spring, they guessed.

Cummings rep took longer to get here. Maybe two weeks after I called. I'm still waiting on his estimate. If memory serves, he said that once I signed a contract, install would be eight to 12 weeks. (I think he was being optimistic.)

Generac, whose rep called me maybe a week after the Cummings guy was here, said best they could do would be to schedule me for a site survey at the end of December...

Would be a great business to be in nowadays. Not a good time to be a customer though.

For the interim, I would like to share my prior work experience and my experience in getting a generator installed. Back in my working days, I examined a tremendous number of Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions (CC & R) for residential developments, where uses of properties were controlled and a Homeowners Association (HOA) was set up to enforce the CC&R. Since I had a copy of the CC&R from back when I bought my house, in an abundance of caution and years of experience I figured that before I spent a small fortune for a generator I'd better check to see if I needed to get approval for a generator from the HOA. After examining the CC&R, I determined that it was too close a call and contacted the HOA. Initially the HOA manager opined that I could install a generator but would have to put a screen around it.

Happily the managing agent of the HOA was good to deal with. I got the necessary forms, and since I didn't have much guidance as to what to do, I filled out the forms as best I could and printed off the entire Generac web site and attached the printout to the forms. I then informed the managing agent of a web site called "Showmystreet.com" which brought up a picture of my property and allowed the agent to visualize where the generator would go. The end result was I got a piece of paper that said my generator was approved and I didn't have to put a screen around it.

With the current wait for delivery of home generators, I wanted to bring this up to everyone so that they can take care of these issues ahead of time.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I'm sure you folks saw the recall notice but on the off chance you didn't...

Generac recalls portable generators after 7 finger amputations | Fox Business

 

[Onomea]

Choosing a Brand for a Whole House/Stand By Generator

Apologies for the rambling below. Trying to think my way through this and am looking for opinions.

Either in this thread or another thread on home generators, I read at least one opinion by a member who had been in the commercial generator maintenance business that Kohler and Cummings (AKA Onan), while more expensive, are more reliable than Generac.

As posted above, I have asked for site surveys (for a whole house generator with auto transfer switch) and bids from dealers representing Kohler, Cummins and Generac. My house is about 2800 sq ft, and I want to be able to run everything seamlessly if we experience a power outage. I think I need about a 20 KW system.

So far, all I have is the Kohler bid at $18K. The Cummings dealer has surveyed my site, but it is well over two weeks now and no bid here yet. I think Cummings likely to be a little ($2~$3K; I'm guessing) cheaper. Generac told me over the phone that for my size house and what I want, max cost would be $14K, but they won't even take a look until late December.

I think any of these are likely to be four to eight months out, possibly more, for installation once on contract. I also think, given the market at the moment, I have little (maybe zero, tho I will ask) leverage to negotiate.

Above, Gary suggests I take a look at Briggs & Stratton. I have found some dealers nearby, and think I will ask B&S a survey as well.

Questions for the forum:

Without running down anyone else's brand choice, do you think I am correct to think:

• 1) Kohler is top of the line, followed by
• 2) Cummings/Onan and Briggs & Stratton, with
• 3) Generac #1 for cost but third for reliability?

The other consideration here is the dealer/installer/maintenance guy. As far as I can determine, territories overlap. And some guys apparently will sell and install more than one brand.

I am a bit tired of waiting for surveys, and then waiting for proposals. The Kohler guy, and his company, did seem more professional than the Cummings guy who has yet to give me a prop. (Cummings guy said he could do Kohler, too, so I asked for a Kohler prop as well from him. No sign of either.)

Sure I'd like to save money, but not at the expense of reliability. Maybe I oughta just pull the trigger on the Kohler at $18K (plus maintenance contract) and be done with it.

Whatta you guys think?

(Re HOA rules, I contacted the HOA board some weeks ago, and was told that as long as the unit is not visible from the street, is in the back yard, there are no restrictions.)

 

[Golddollar]

Questions for the forum:

Without running down anyone else's brand choice, do you think I am correct to think:

• 1) Kohler is top of the line, followed by
• 2) Cummings/Onan and Briggs & Stratton, with
• 3) Generac #1 for cost but third for reliability?

(Re HOA rules, I contacted the HOA board some weeks ago, and was told that as long as the unit is not visible from the street, is in the back yard, there are no restrictions.)

I'm glad to hear that your HOA is being reasonable about having a generator.

I've had a 22K whole house Generac generator for 3 1/2 years now. I don't know anything about the other brands, but I'll give you the benefit of my experience.

On the Generac web site is a program that will tell you exactiy the size of generator that you need. Apparently generators are matched to the anticipated function and size of the building, going both ways.

My generator is quiet. One day I went out on the front porch when the generator was running and somebody across the street was running a leaf blower. The leaf blower across the street was a lot louder than the generator next to my front porch.

In the last 3 1/2 years there has been a few power outtages. I tested out the reaction time for my generator and found that it will kick in about 13 seconds after a power outage. I get the maintenace done and never had the slightest problem.

I hope this helps you out. Good luck with your choice

 

[GaryS]

I don't know anything about Kohler, so can't comment. The guy I talked to about the Briggs and Stratton was not a sales guy. He was someone I knew well before I thought about getting a generator. At that time he was a maintenance supervisor for a company that mostly does commercial generators.

He told me that he could get me a portable B&S generator, but felt that there were advantages to a whole house.

His company used to sell Generac but found that production shortcuts adopted by the company made them less reliable and parts were hard for them to get.

Two other things to consider. If you call for service, how long will it take for them to get out? Also, think about a service contract for after the warranty expires.

Apologies for the rambling below. Trying to think my way through this and am looking for opinions.

Either in this thread or another thread on home generators, I read at least one opinion by a member who had been in the commercial generator maintenance business that Kohler and Cummings (AKA Onan), while more expensive, are more reliable than Generac.

As posted above, I have asked for site surveys (for a whole house generator with auto transfer switch) and bids from dealers representing Kohler, Cummins and Generac. My house is about 2800 sq ft, and I want to be able to run everything seamlessly if we experience a power outage. I think I need about a 20 KW system.

So far, all I have is the Kohler bid at $18K. The Cummings dealer has surveyed my site, but it is well over two weeks now and no bid here yet. I think Cummings likely to be a little ($2~$3K; I'm guessing) cheaper. Generac told me over the phone that for my size house and what I want, max cost would be $14K, but they won't even take a look until late December.

I think any of these are likely to be four to eight months out, possibly more, for installation once on contract. I also think, given the market at the moment, I have little (maybe zero, tho I will ask) leverage to negotiate.

Above, Gary suggests I take a look at Briggs & Stratton. I have found some dealers nearby, and think I will ask B&S a survey as well.

Questions for the forum:

Without running down anyone else's brand choice, do you think I am correct to think:

• 1) Kohler is top of the line, followed by
• 2) Cummings/Onan and Briggs & Stratton, with
• 3) Generac #1 for cost but third for reliability?

The other consideration here is the dealer/installer/maintenance guy. As far as I can determine, territories overlap. And some guys apparently will sell and install more than one brand.

I am a bit tired of waiting for surveys, and then waiting for proposals. The Kohler guy, and his company, did seem more professional than the Cummings guy who has yet to give me a prop. (Cummings guy said he could do Kohler, too, so I asked for a Kohler prop as well from him. No sign of either.)

Sure I'd like to save money, but not at the expense of reliability. Maybe I oughta just pull the trigger on the Kohler at $18K (plus maintenance contract) and be done with it.

Whatta you guys think?

(Re HOA rules, I contacted the HOA board some weeks ago, and was told that as long as the unit is not visible from the street, is in the back yard, there are no restrictions.)

 

[Capt Steve]

Winter... bring it on

We moved up to Payson in central Arizona at 5,000' from Tucson a year ago and experienced a fairly serious winter for the first time. Late January we had 2.5' of heavy wet snow in 3 days with temps in the mid teens. That's not much compared to what many of you get but it was a real education for me as I lived in San Diego for 50 years before moving to Tucson.

Our smallish house is very well built, heavily insulated with double pane glass and all electric but has a nice large cast iron wood burning stove. We went through about half a cord of hardwood a month lighting the fire every afternoon at 3 {when the bar opens}. By 7 the house is in the mid 70's and I just let it burn out. We run the electric furnace for about an hour in the morning and that's it.

Should we loose power, and we haven't yet, our 24' Class C motorhome sits in the driveway with a 4,000KW generator ready to fire up at a moments notice. The coach has a 35,000 BTU furnace and I keep both the gas and LP tanks full.

My Honda Ridgeline AWD is amazing in the snow and the Polaris Rzr SXS is even more fun... Like I said, bring it on!

 

[Greyman50]

I’m with Capt Steve, if things go really bad, just get in the RV, 32’ customized interior and so comfortable could live in it. Hurricanes is all there is to worry about around here. By chance the “ weather guessers” say really bad, load RV up and hit the road.

 

[djohns6]

There's a Generac dealer not far from me that I was following on Facebook because I knew a guy that worked there . They were posting pictures of them unloading inventory and doing new installs . The extended warranty seemed to be pretty reasonable too .

 

[Onomea]

I pulled the trigger on a 20KW Kohler.

The Cummings guy, after his site visit to my place a month ago, never got back to me. (He told me he'd get me a bid in a week or so.)

The Generac dealer can't even do a site survey until late December. (I could look for another dealer, but have decided I don't want to go with Generac.)

The Briggs & Stratton dealer/electrician/installer called back in response to my site survey request, and said he'd call again with a specific date for the survey — and that was now two weeks ago...

With all the crazy weather we've been having, the whole house/stand by generator market is exploding now, which is what explains the lackadaisical responses I've been getting, I think.

The Kohler installer seems very professional. I've spoken to two guys, one of whom did the site survey. The other, on the phone, told me he'd been in the business for 30 years, had dealt with all the manufacturers, and believed Kohler the best. The onsite guy has been responsive, and has answered all my questions. They haven't tried to sugarcoat the long lead time, telling me their best guess is installation maybe late this year or sometime early next, depending on when they can get the unit from Kohler.

I see this as a long term relationship, so I want reliable people, people I can count on, maintaining the thing.

In short, while the most expensive, Kohler seems the right choice for me.

 

[oldbrownhat]

I pulled the trigger on a 20KW Kohler.

The Cummings guy, after his site visit to my place a month ago, never got back to me. (He told me he'd get me a bid in a week or so.)

The Generac dealer can't even do a site survey until late December. (I could look for another dealer, but have decided I don't want to go with Generac.)

The Briggs & Stratton dealer/electrician/installer called back in response to my site survey request, and said he'd call again with a specific date for the survey — and that was now two weeks ago...

With all the crazy weather we've been having, the whole house/stand by generator market is exploding now, which is what explains the lackadaisical responses I've been getting, I think.

The Kohler installer seems very professional. I've spoken to two guys, one of whom did the site survey. The other, on the phone, told me he'd been in the business for 30 years, had dealt with all the manufacturers, and believed Kohler the best. The onsite guy has been responsive, and has answered all my questions. They haven't tried to sugarcoat the long lead time, telling me their best guess is installation maybe late this year or sometime early next, depending on when they can get the unit from Kohler.

I see this as a long term relationship, so I want reliable people, people I can count on, maintaining the thing.

In short, while the most expensive, Kohler seems the right choice for me.

"It's hard to get good help these days." And even harder to get product! But from what I've read, Kohler is a good product and for a genny of that size and cost, you want a long-term relationship with the installer. My gf had the same problem with finding a plumber to replace her condensing boiler. The company she went with had been around for decades and the guy she dealt with, like your guy, had been in the biz for 30 years.

You'll want to have a good-sized steel tank to feed it, and put stabilizer in the fuel. You may also want to look into some sort of "load bank" to keep it running at ~75% of full power, as I understand there can be issues with "wet stacking" if it's run for too long at lower levels. (That'll be about 125A draw @ 120v.) I'm no expert on this, though, but your installer would be able to advise you.

Now let's hope they can get it installed before there is a serious outage.

 

[Onomea]

Thanks, oldbrownhat. I'm on natural gas here, with a gas line running into the house from the street. Seems I'll need a bigger meter and some more piping and stuff in the garage. I considered adding a buried 500 gal propane tank — in case, say, an earthquake took out the gas lines — but decided it was probably overkill. (My wife was also concerned about making the neighbors nervous.)

 

[oldbrownhat]

Thanks, oldbrownhat. I'm on natural gas here, with a gas line running into the house from the street. Seems I'll need a bigger meter and some more piping and stuff in the garage. I considered adding a buried 500 gal propane tank — in case, say, an earthquake took out the gas lines — but decided it was probably overkill. (My wife was also concerned about making the neighbors nervous.)

Oops...if I had read back in this thread I'd have realized that .

You're gonna be the envy of your neighbours when The Outage comes to visit

 

[Chubbo]

Please don't consider me or my post, uncouth, or disrespectful. It's meant only to convey, humor from the past. When giving instructions for the preparation for tornadoes, in our area, an old, adage, that I cleaned up a dab, was; "Sit down, put your head between your legs, and kiss your axe goodbye"!

 

[Bugkiller99]

Got It !!!!

It will run the whole house, A/C, Electric Stove, Etc..

To many years in Florida to take any chances.

Wow Ditrina, I don’t think I’ve seen one that big!
Portable generator that is!

 

[doublesharp]

I take my shtf preparation advice from Sipowitz:

A Vespa, a j frame and a Snickers bar.