Thoughts on Mexico

[geoff40]

Mexico drug wars have claimed the lives of some 34,000 plus people in just the last 5 years. There is an ongoing slaughter going on down there, as I am sure everyone belonging to this forum is aware of. Corrupt Police, corrupt politicians, army officers, and more. Guns coming up from the south, the full autos that these animals are using by the 1000s. Obviously they are not coming from Texas and Arizona guns shops, but thats another topic for someone to update us all with.
Recent finds by Mexican police, or US Border Patrol agents, and others along both sides of the borders include grenades and rocket launchers poorly hidden in clumps of bushes, with ammunition to fire too, just left there for later perhaps, or outright abandoned.
Beheadings, torture, murder. Headless bodies dumped along major highways by the truckload. 7 more dumped just today. Teachers speak out against the cartels and a day later 5 heads are left in front of a school. The other day the bodies of 2 young people were found hanging from a bridge. Examination showed they were alive when they were left there, the man hanging by his wrists, sliced open in numerous places; the young woman with him dangling like a dressed pig, hung with her arms and legs up, they had disemboweled her before they hung her by the ropes. Both of them were obviously aware when hung, and soon died. About as animalistic and painful as you could get. Their crimes? They dared write and post stuff on the web about the drug cartels.

We have had tunnels discovered between Mexico and the USA, tunnels obviously used to smuggle illegals, gang members, drugs and drug money, and weapons.
In short, we have a war going on, not just beyond our doorstep, but now actually crossing over it. These gangs are in our cities right now, establishing their "trade" and forcing their drugs on to our streets. The profits are astounding. The consequences unacceptable. And our politicians, the ones who have anything much to say at all, use it all to claim that these weapons they are using down there come from border town gun shops, probably as you already know.
We have so much in terms of resources in commitments half way around the globe, fighting in the Middle East, while this is going on just a few steps away from our southern border, as well as underneath it. It is going to be the next front line. How long is it going to take before this country awakens to this peril, and starts insisting that time has passed for serious counter measures, what ever they are deemed to be? Will we wait until the beheadings start here in American cities? This is not a war Mexico is going to be able to end by itself, its going to take a lot of well trained military troops and considerable help from the outside world. It is a war we can't afford to wait 10 more years to pass before we decide to get involved in.


The bodies of a young Mexican couple were found hung from a bridge just a few days ago, their deaths horrible acts of torture and terror. Both were alive when left in this position, the woman disemboweled, the man slit open in several spots on his body. Their "crime" was openly posting information about the drug cartels, according to the yellow sign also left at the scene, clearly a warning to not talk. The sign states ‘This is going to happen to all those posting funny things on the internet, You better (expletive) pay attention. I’m about to get you.’
Some Mexican media outlets have already become silent after cartel violence directed at them.

 

[feralmerril]

It`s amazing that the last 100 years we have no quams fighting terror on the other side the world but allow it on our back porch. I must have missed something somewhere. A bunch of our top officals obvisely think it would be political suicide to do something about it. This is already biteing us in the butt.

 

[redlevel]

These gangs are in our cities right now, establishing their "trade" and forcing their drugs on to our streets. The profits are astounding.

Everything else aside, I don't think they are exactly having to "force" their products on our streets. There has been a viable and lucrative market on the streets of every major US City for at least 50 years now. If I am correct, I believe that market was serviced by Colombia and perhaps some Asian countries in the past. Now it is Mexico.

Like you, I am appalled by the violence in Mexico and the implication that the US 2nd amendment is to blame. However, I don't see how we can become so incensed about the Mexican traffickers in the drug trade when we don't have the political will to clean up our own streets. If the demand wasn't there, there would be no incentive for the Cartel to smuggle the drugs across the border.

IBTL

 

[brucev]

Once upon a time there was an amendment to the Constitution... and alcohol became illegal... and, well, you know the rest of the story. Then, someone took an eraser to that amendment... and the bottom fell out of the "market." Same principle applied to marijuana would go a long way to dealing with this problem. Treat the stuff exactly the same as liquor... regulate it and tax it. Eliminate a market for criminals. Of course it would also affect the courts and law enforcement. I don't like it. But that's reality. Never going to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

[BruceHMX]

Well let me post something funny on the internet. They need to be exterminated like bugs who do this type of violence. Until this country gets serious about border security we will deal with this. Not to make it political but it is. Get rid of illegals. Give the jobs to Americans. Seal the border. Hell hire the vets who are out of work to patrol it. It's choking us to death folks....

 

[27145]

I could care less what happens in that Country. I am also sick of this Country being the "World's Police". By lineage I am Irish and my 2 sons are Puerto Rican and Irish. I don't like the illegal Irish and i don't like the illegal Mexicans. They are very anti American, but they like our money.

When I was a cop, I would get illegal Mexicans complaining that they worked all day and they were not paid. I would talk to the foreman and shame them into paying, which was technically illegal, since it was a civil matter. I did this because I believed in fairness.

Then I got to know the garbage Mexicans pulled. At this point, I would tell them "go to court", knowing they couldn't. They suck up medical and hospital benefits as well as taxes to school them. I spoke spanish, but they would read my name tag and say "I want Spanish speaking officer". I would basically tell them to jump off a cliff. It was like a burglar getting caught in the home and demanding the tv, since it was what he wanted.

I never thought I would think this way, but they should legalize all drugs in this Country. I have seen what drugs can do to a person, it is horrific. I think everyone knows someone who has suffered addiction to drugs. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

But since it is illegal, it hasn't stopped it at all. I have seen cops die enforcing drug laws. I have become cold, thinking if you want to do drugs, have at it and die.

My whole family were cops, except my younger brother, he got involved in it and his life ended prematurely. Bad enough the family had to deal with an addict, they also had to deal with a bogus justice system. He would get locked up, get paroled and go right back.When he went to jail, the family suffered more than him. Laws against drugs do not work any better than Prohibition for alcohol.

I do not use any drugs at all, but I do like my beer. I have seen plenty of innocent people, including children killed due to drug trafficing. Years ago if someone suggested to me to legalize drugs, I would have gone into a tirade. Now I find myself rethinking things.

God help anyone who becomes addicted.

 

[mtgianni]

The other solution is to kill all the users, jailing doesn't work.

 

[27145]

The other solution is to kill all the users, jailing doesn't work.

Unfortunately, they kill themselves. As a cop I hated junkies. They would shoot up in hallways of apartment buildings. I went to an aided case where a mother had her pants down to her ankles and was shooting heroin into her vagina, right in front of her kids.

Her veins were too collapsed to shoot anywhere else. She called for an ambulance, because the hypo broke off in her. She looked like she was 65 years old, all wrinkled, with gray hair. She told me she was 27 for the aided card. I got pissed off because I thought she was lying to me. I saw her id and was shocked.

No one ever thinks they will try it and end up like that. No one in their right mind would do something like that. BCW (children's services) was called by me and they refused to have the kids removed, this was in the early 80's.

I can't help feeling sorry for people who ultimately become people who are worse than animals.

 

[27145]

looking at those pics, are they pinatas?

 

[GatorFarmer]

Last I followed the story, unless there were new developments, the two dead weren't positively identified as having been bloggers. In fact the bodies were unclaimed. True, a warning about blogging was posted near the bodies for intimidation, but they could have just a likely been killed for other reasons.

Anyway, Mexico has had intermittent problems and instability for the last 100years or so.

I actually haven't heard about full auto firearms moving north from Mexico. There actually are a decent number of American guns that move south, but that's Mexico's problem the way I see it. There's not really much demand for smuggling guns into the United States, in generally most things that a person could want are obtainable legally or quasi legally.

 

[TACC1]

I have noticed, that the media will mention the various atrocities, simply because they Can't hide something so gross. Whilst they
delight in condemning, at the top of their lungs, anything thatgoes against Their standards, no such attitude exists about the drug war.
It is reported as something from a slow news day, of no importance!
If these acts were committed by people they DIDN'T like, the headlines would be huge and never ending. JMHO, TACC1.

 

[GKC]

On a discussion forum I participate in, a member posted a video of two captured members of a drug cartel being beheaded by rival cartel members. The video is horrifying graphic...it is clear, up close, and shows the men first being "interviewed" (it is in Spanish) and then they are beheaded: the first man's head is cut off with a chain saw, and it isn't a quick cut...the saw stalls a couple of times. The second man's head is cut off with a large knife, and it is even slower...as the man doing the cutting saws at the man's neck, you can actually see the chest heaving and hear the body gasping for air through the severed trachea.

I know it can't be posted here...it is unbearably brutal, and unbelievably graphic...but believe me, you wouldn't want to see it anyway. I was disturbed for several days after watching it, and wish I hadn't. What was even more striking than the brutality is how calmly the men accepted their fate. They didn't scream or fight...when the chain saw and knife hit their necks, they grimaced, but no struggling or outcry. It makes me wonder if they had done the same or similar brutal acts in their own cartel, and accepted their fate as no worse than they had themselves done to others.

How terrible it must be to live there...and how resolute we must be to prevent conditions in our own country from becoming even worse than they are now. If we allow the illegal immigration to continue unabated, this will come to us as well.

 

[mac2]

I remember reading Jeff Cooper's "Random Thoughts" column in the back of G&A where he quoted someone suggesting the authorities intercept shipments of drugs, poison them, then put them on the market...no market, no drugs trade...

Seriously: I can see what he was saying; just attack the market - users, addicts have to be the weakest link and say, go all 19th century on them - concentration camps - scorched earth policy etc...didn't it work against the the south in the 1860s, the Indians 15 years later and the Philippinos in 1900? Think it worked for us in South Africa around the same time.

 

[geoff40]

I read and hear that these cartels aren't satisfied with drugs. They are also well in to other illegal activities too, plenty of them. The drugs alone earn them in to the billions, then add in the human traffic, the "protection" schemes against people from all walks of life (not just retail merchants), etc.
In the long term, legalizing drugs isn't going to make them go away, and I posted this because I believe sooner or later these cartels are an enemy we will be dealing with. War. While our leaders do nothing month after month, year after year, their numbers grow, their arms increase, their power base grows, their relationships with our enemies from elsewhere in the world increase, make no mistakes what their long term goals are.

 

[blujax01]

Pipe Dreams?

There is nothing I would like more than to see our troops brought back from the desert and deployed along the border. I would like to see our politicians help in ridding our Mexican brothers of these drug cartels. A lot of good folks are being lumped in with the ne'er-do-wells.

1) Amnesty for current illegals - fast track the process and make 'em citizens. We were all illegals once, right? Get everyone on the roster and paying taxes.

2) That being said - Stop the encouragement of using illegal labor - jobs shall at least be paid minimum wage and taxes withheld and records kept. If you stop the source of illegal income, everything else will fall into place. About half of our troops could put down their guns and pick up clip boards. Make 'em government inspectors and code enforcers.

3) Once illegal hiring practices and illegal immigration has slowed, we shall see if "Them Mexicans is a-stealing our jobs" or if it is as I suspect - most Anglo teens will not perform labor at any wage. I wonder if things will remain as they have - except that the now legal immigrants will be paying taxes, going to college, getting smarter. With that education comes repatriation, an eventual return home and elevation of their local economy. Free flow of goods and services across the border? Would that be cool or what!
4) As others have said, go ahead and legalize pot. Marijuana farming as a legal crop would make a rather large contribution to the GDP and remove the impetus for smuggling. Would this turn gang members into pot farmers? Or a Jimmy Hoffa-esque union distribution network? (And pity the fool who tries to horn in on the Compton crops of the Crypts and Bloods)!

Maybe, maybe not...

 

[Stevens]

I'm for a strong military presence along the border and as far in as they can tunnel from Mexico. We will be bringing back Military from Iraq and Afganistan. Put them there. Set up bases for living and to do desert training there. If that is not enough start bringng them back from some of the "Not Hotspots" overseas we have many thousands in UK, Germany, Japan, etc. etc.
Not only will our border be secure but we are now spending millions abroad in and around overseas bases better to spend that money, help businesses and create jobs, in towns and cities on our side of the border.
Maybe a bigger Navy and Coast Guard presence in the Gulf of Mexico and the Southern California coast will also help stem the flow of drugs and illegals by water.
As has been posted we worry about problems overseas when we have far worse right here. Genocide of thousands of honest folks by criminals, where is the UN on that, not a peep from them or our hollywood set (maybe they are afraid the flow of their drugs will be interrupted)!
Steve W.

 

[Tam 3]

Declare victory on the War On Drugs. Legalize all of it. Tax it. Put heroin back in the pain killing business. Darwinian Theory will take care of the users. The cartels will come up with another primary activity (human trafficking, sex trade??) and we can stop paying for all of the busy work that has defined the War since , at least, FDR's administration.

Regards,

Tam 3

 

[BE Mike]

There is nothing I would like more than to see our troops brought back from the desert and deployed along the border. I would like to see our politicians help in ridding our Mexican brothers of these drug cartels. A lot of good folks are being lumped in with the ne'er-do-wells.

1) Amnesty for current illegals - fast track the process and make 'em citizens. We were all illegals once, right? Get everyone on the roster and paying taxes.

2) That being said - Stop the encouragement of using illegal labor - jobs shall at least be paid minimum wage and taxes withheld and records kept. If you stop the source of illegal income, everything else will fall into place. About half of our troops could put down their guns and pick up clip boards. Make 'em government inspectors and code enforcers.

3) Once illegal hiring practices and illegal immigration has slowed, we shall see if "Them Mexicans is a-stealing our jobs" or if it is as I suspect - most Anglo teens will not perform labor at any wage. I wonder if things will remain as they have - except that the now legal immigrants will be paying taxes, going to college, getting smarter. With that education comes repatriation, an eventual return home and elevation of their local economy. Free flow of goods and services across the border? Would that be cool or what!
4) As others have said, go ahead and legalize pot. Marijuana farming as a legal crop would make a rather large contribution to the GDP and remove the impetus for smuggling. Would this turn gang members into pot farmers? Or a Jimmy Hoffa-esque union distribution network? (And pity the fool who tries to horn in on the Compton crops of the Crypts and Bloods)!

Maybe, maybe not...

Unfortunately most of the things you state have already been tried. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of the 80's legalized illegals. There are laws on the books with penalties for hiring illegal aliens. There are laws on the books regarding working conditions and wages. There is a Free Trade Agreement with Mexico. As in many things, new laws aren't the answer.

We need the will to enforce the existing laws in the U.S. Mexico has been corrupt and the government has been keeping the populace downtrodden. The people have been kept uneducated. The population in Mexico keeps exploding, so that every few years there is another crop of uneducated young folks who see drugs or illegally entering and working in the U.S. as the answer to their woes. Like in our ghettos, the folks in the worst conditions see drugs as an easy way to make money. The folks using the drugs see them as an escape, and to be sure the drug pushers aren't called that for no reason.

As long as folks in the U.S. seek out cheap labor and drugs, we will have some major issues. As long as Mexico keeps going along the way it has for generations with no middle class and the rich keeping the poor under their boot heels, Mexico will not change.

Along with some clear thinkers, I always see the "pot heads" call for legalizing mj. If legalization would work and I'm not convinced that it would, to be effective, all drugs would have to be legalized, including coke, meth and heroin.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Declare victory on the War On Drugs. Legalize all of it. Tax it. Put heroin back in the pain killing business. Darwinian Theory will take care of the users. The cartels will come up with another primary activity (human trafficking, sex trade??) and we can stop paying for all of the busy work that has defined the War since , at least, FDR's administration.

Are we really that afraid of drugs? How many out there would start smoking pot, or using hards drugs, the minute they made them legal? I honestly don't know anyone who's waiting for them to be legalized so they can begin using drugs. If I wanted to smoke pot I could have some within an hour but I don't use it and nothing would change with legalization. In any event we speak of wanting the government to stay out of our lives, here's a chance to see how serious we are about it.

 

[venomballistics]

Drugs are just a by product.
gangs are out to gain power and control ... which takes money.
that money just happens to come from drug trade. eliminate the lucrative nature of drug trade through legalization and the cash cow will just manifest itself in a different line of business to support the lust for power and control.
we are just trying to put off the inevitable right now. we will be at war with Mexico some day, our hands have been more than forced on this issue