Thumb safety question

[S&W Fan]

Ok first off I'm a 50+ year shooter, carrier, user of 1911s so hang with me. I'm not talking about whether a striker fired pistol should have a thumb safety or not-I'm quite ok without one.

What I'd like to know is why is the thumb safety on the Shield/Plus so tiny?! I can disengage it fairly easily but not when I try to engage it while holding it in a typical manner. I have to rotate the gun out of my firing grip, hold it on it's side and push up with the end of my thumb to engage it.

I'd like to put the standard single thumb safety the "larger" pistols use but don't think that's possible. Right now I carry it without the safety engaged-and I'm quite comfortable doing so fyi-and only engage it when the pistol is off my body/out of the holster.

This Shield Plus is the only M&P I have with the thumb safety-and posted about doing so without paying attention LOL.

Does anyone know if the single side safety will work on the Shield Plus? Since it's there I'd like to have a slightly extended thumb safety on it similar to my various 1911s.

 

[jurek]

Shield is a typical concealed carry pistol and all levers were designed to minimize the contour of the gun.
I've been reading tons of questions about this and still don't understand why shooters expect this safety to be the same as on full size or compact pistols.
Shield as a striker fired pistol doesn't need thumb safety to be a safe tool.
Just treat this lever as something usable once you don't carry it and need extra safety when it is sitting somewhere in your house. You set it ON when in not is use, then OFF when you carry it.

 

[The Mighty S&W]

I think you fully understand that the gun does not NEED the thumb safety, and what you are asking is:

1) Why they didn’t make the thumb safety larger like that of the 1911 so that it could be more easily manipulated, and

2) Is such a safety available for those who desire one

If those are your questions, I would say that the reason why they don’t put a larger safety on the gun is because of market demands. These pistols are designed to compete with other subcompact pistols geared toward concealed carry, and the majority of consumers demand that their carry gun be free from extended controls that might become uncomfortable, inadvertently activate/deactivate as a result of movement throughout the day, and they also want a sleek appearance. The safety on guns like the Shield, Shield Plus, or M&P Bodyguard are likely added as a feature to appease those who want a safety, while being as unobtrusive as possible for the majority of users who will simply never use it.

As for whether or not an extended safety lever is available, I am not sure. I suspect that it would not be too hard for someone with a bit of skill to fabricate such a lever for you, and there may be aftermarket companies already producing such a thing.

 

[pantannojack]

I trained on GI 1911-A1's. I carry a Shield 45 with a T safety, I would not have bought with out it. It is no problem for me to lift my thumb to push it on or off.

 

[equin]

My Shield Plus also has the thumb safety. I’m also in my 50’s and accustomed to the thumb safety on 1911’s. And yes, I have a Glock with no thumb safety and am fine with that also. I understand the point Jurek makes, especially considering the gun’s small size, but I’d still like the option of a slightly larger, aftermarket thumb safety on my Shield Plus since it came with one. Mine isn’t difficult to engage or disengage, but I’d just prefer it to be slightly bigger for my own, more personal convenience. Even so, I think mine is a fantastic gun as is.

 

[S&W Fan]

Thanks. There were times I carried a Colt Officer’s ACP and later a Defender, each roughly the size of the Shield Plus. On both I used the slim Ed Brown “tactical” thumb safety.

Trust me, I deeply appreciate the modern design of the Plus, it’s a fantastic carry piece and fun at the range as well. In my original post I pointed out the boneheaded move that led to me buying the safety version.

This may be more of a theoretical exercise rather than making a realistic change to the pistol. It will be my warm weather carry piece without any trepidation.

 

[LVSteve]

Making the safety easy to put back on would require a bigger lever, which isn't what the market wants on its concealable guns.

Then there is a philosophical point. Getting the safety off quickly is more important than putting it back on. The original Steyr M9 was the same. Quick push up with your trigger finger got the safety off, but you have to manipulate the gun like you are dismantling a Glock to get it back on. It's just the way the gun works, but too many gun reviewers (IMHO) get bent out of shape any time they have to change their grip to do something with a gun. My view is this: if I don't like the way a gun is designed to operate, I don't buy it. If I find out after I bought it, it's on me to either like it, lump it or sell it.

 

[kbm6893]

All my M&P’s have thumb safeties. The ones on the full size and compacts are obnoxiously big, and they don’t need to be in both side of the gun. The ones in the Shield and especially the Bodyguard .380 are tiny.

There’s a happy medium that should be addressed. The Shield with a safety was bought specifically (in most cases) because it had the safety. So there is a market. Nobody is advocating putting a giant size safety on such a small gun. I can’t understand why it hasn’t been addressed by the aftermarket. You can replace so many other components, why not a safety that is a hair larger?

Galloway Precision and Apex exist solely to replace factory parts with their own. You can replace virtually every component on a Glock pistol. I have a Ruger 10/22 that doesn’t have one Ruger factory part on it. You can get striker plates with Punisher logos, extended mag releases, extended slide stops, Zombie ammunition and Zombie targets. You can get a pistol bayonet, if you want. I can’t imagine that being such a hot seller, but there it is. We’re not talking about extensive research and development. It’s a slightly wider piece of plastic. The one on my Ruger LC9S is perfect. Their old SR series had a nice one, too. I’m sure a smaller one for their full size and compact would sell, as well. I’d replace all the ones on my full sizes and compacts with a smaller one and the ones in my Shield with a slightly larger one if they were ever offered. Especially a single sided one for the full size and compacts.

Beretta has slim safety levers to replace the ones on the 92 and PX4 series. Don’t get why somebody hasn’t made aftermarket ones for the M&P. I’m sure they’d sell more than the Glock entrenching tool or pistol bayonet does.

 

[equin]

All my M&P’s have thumb safeties. The ones on the full size and compacts are obnoxiously big, and they don’t need to be in both side of the gun. The ones in the Shield and especially the Bodyguard .380 are tiny.

There’s a happy medium that should be addressed. The Shield with a safety was bought specifically (in most cases) because it had the safety. So there is a market. Nobody is advocating putting a giant size safety on such a small gun. I can’t understand why it hasn’t been addressed by the aftermarket. You can replace so many other components, why not a safety that is a hair larger?

Galloway Precision and Apex exist solely to replace factory parts with their own. You can replace virtually every component on a Glock pistol. I have a Ruger 10/22 that doesn’t have one Ruger factory part on it. You can get striker plates with Punisher logos, extended mag releases, extended slide stops, Zombie ammunition and Zombie targets. You can get a pistol bayonet, if you want. I can’t imagine that being such a hot seller, but there it is. We’re not talking about extensive research and development. It’s a slightly wider piece of plastic. The one on my Ruger LC9S is perfect. Their old SR series had a nice one, too. I’m sure a smaller one for their full size and compact would sell, as well. I’d replace all the ones on my full sizes and compacts with a smaller one and the ones in my Shield with a slightly larger one if they were ever offered. Especially a single sided one for the full size and compacts.

Beretta has slim safety levers to replace the ones on the 92 and PX4 series. Don’t get why somebody hasn’t made aftermarket ones for the M&P. I’m sure they’d sell more than the Glock entrenching tool or pistol bayonet does.

I agree. I also bought mine knowing it came with a thumb safety. I inow most don’t like thumb safeties on striker-fired pistols, but I liked the idea of having one on mine. It was one of the selling points for me in buying a Shield Plus. With that said, I wouldn’t want a large one like the one on my 1911, just something a bit bigger. It may take experimenting by someone with machinist skills and equipment to come up with something that could later be offered as an aftermarket item.

 

[gunsmith71]

I am going through the same thing with the Shield Plus safety; mine is particularly stiff. So I am going to try a couple things.

First, I have purchased an ambi safety from the standard M&P line, and going to see if I can fashion the frame-out part to a spare Shield safety I have. If that doesn't work.....

Second, I will try taking either a Shield EZ safety or a Sig P365 safety and tacking the frame-out part to a Shield safety.

Will keep everyone posted.

 

[S&W Fan]

kbm6893 and gunsmith71, great posts!!

 

[kbm6893]

I am going through the same thing with the Shield Plus safety; mine is particularly stiff. So I am going to try a couple things.

First, I have purchased an ambi safety from the standard M&P line, and going to see if I can fashion the frame-out part to a spare Shield safety I have. If that doesn't work.....

Second, I will try taking either a Shield EZ safety or a Sig P365 safety and tacking the frame-out part to a Shield safety.

Will keep everyone posted.

I started a post on here a couple of years ago regarding this very question. I got quite a few “why do you want one? It doesn’t need one” comments. One guy had a good solution. JB Weld to add a bit more of a ledge. But I’m not looking for something like that.

For the full size ones, the solution has to be easier. S&W already sells the plugs for the frame if the safety is removed. The whole two sided safety comes right out. One poster cut off one side, and I gotta think removing some material is a lot easier than adding material. I’d imagine somebody with a 3D printer could take the safety out and use it to make a copy with a slightly wider safety.

For what it’s worth, the Plus safety was a lot tighter than the one on my original Shield. It has loosened up.

Still can’t figure out why someone hasn’t stepped up and made one. We’re talking about a slightly wider piece of plastic. With all the other aftermarket stuff available, I don’t see an aftermarket safety being such a big deal.

 

[equin]

I am going through the same thing with the Shield Plus safety; mine is particularly stiff. So I am going to try a couple things.

First, I have purchased an ambi safety from the standard M&P line, and going to see if I can fashion the frame-out part to a spare Shield safety I have. If that doesn't work.....

Second, I will try taking either a Shield EZ safety or a Sig P365 safety and tacking the frame-out part to a Shield safety.

Will keep everyone posted.

Interested to hear how it works out!

As for the thumb safety being stiff, the display model I looked at had one that was very difficult to move. So I was leery about choosing one with the safety. Mine was stiff, but not as stiff as that display model’s. But manipulating it with lots of dry fire practice has loosened it up quite a bit to where it’s no longer all that stiff. I still prefer to have a slightly bigger one, though.

 

[CouchPotato]

My position is that I won't carry a firearm inside of my pants, in any spot, without a manual saftey. I feel that the various passive safties on modern striker fired guns is giving many people a false sense of security.

All it takes for a disaster is one absent minded moment or bunched clothing inside of the holster near the trigger.

Despite all of the redundant passive safety mechanisms in and on striker fired guns, if the trigger gets pulled, the gun will fire. There’s enough examples of that happening.

With that said, as many of you know, a manual saftey on a carry gun can also be a disaster in a high stress defensive situation. Lots of practice is required so the saftey can be reliably disengaged.

I wear a large size glove, but don't have enormous hands. On my Shield 2.0 PC, the manual saftey was incredibly stiff and I initially had problems activating and deactivating it. The saftey hits an awkward spot on the inside part of my thumb just behind the knuckle, a spot that generally doesn't see much use and was callous free.

I generally prefer the saftey style on the full size and compact M&P series however if you look at the Shield EZ, which has that option, you can see how that screws up the slim carry profile of the Shield.

Because my saftey was so stiff, while unloaded, I simply activated and deactivated the saftey continuously while watching TV. It didn't take very long to begin to loosen up.

Because of the tight profile of the saftey, and the slim profile of the Shield which I wasn't used to, it was clear that I needed to do lots and lots of dry fire draw reps that included activating and deactivating the saftey. Thankfully skin thickens quickly on our fingers and it wasn't long before I could reliably activate and deactivate the saftey without shifting my grip and without curling my thumb in order to hit the saftey with the pad of my thumb.

Now when I shoot a normal M&P the saftey feels like some excessively large gargantuan thing.

After the break in process with the safety on my Shield 2.0, as well as the break in process with my thumb, I definitely would not change the saftey style on the Shield. Initially my answer would have been totally different.

Im glad that I stubbornly stuck with it. I'd practice until my thumb got sore, when my thumb wasn't sore, I'd practice more. I still do that.

Practice, practice, practice.

Draw strokes and dry firing with dummy rounds is free.

 

[gnappi]

My position is that I won't carry a firearm inside of my pants, in any spot, without a manual saftey. I feel that the various passive safties on modern striker fired guns is giving many people a false sense of security.

All it takes for a disaster is one absent minded moment or bunched clothing inside of the holster near the trigger.

Despite all of the redundant passive safety mechanisms in and on striker fired guns, if the trigger gets pulled, the gun will fire. There’s enough examples of that happening.

With that said, as many of you know, a manual saftey on a carry gun can also be a disaster in a high stress defensive situation. Lots of practice is required so the saftey can be reliably disengaged.

I wear a large size glove, but don't have enormous hands. On my Shield 2.0 PC, the manual saftey was incredibly stiff and I initially had problems activating and deactivating it. The saftey hits an awkward spot on the inside part of my thumb just behind the knuckle, a spot that generally doesn't see much use and was callous free.

I generally prefer the saftey style on the full size and compact M&P series however if you look at the Shield EZ, which has that option, you can see how that screws up the slim carry profile of the Shield.

Because my saftey was so stiff, while unloaded, I simply activated and deactivated the saftey continuously while watching TV. It didn't take very long to begin to loosen up.

Because of the tight profile of the saftey, and the slim profile of the Shield which I wasn't used to, it was clear that I needed to do lots and lots of dry fire draw reps that included activating and deactivating the saftey. Thankfully skin thickens quickly on our fingers and it wasn't long before I could reliably activate and deactivate the saftey without shifting my grip and without curling my thumb in order to hit the saftey with the pad of my thumb.

Now when I shoot a normal M&P the saftey feels like some excessively large gargantuan thing.

After the break in process with the safety on my Shield 2.0, as well as the break in process with my thumb, I definitely would not change the saftey style on the Shield. Initially my answer would have been totally different.

Im glad that I stubbornly stuck with it. I'd practice until my thumb got sore, when my thumb wasn't sore, I'd practice more. I still do that.

Practice, practice, practice.

Draw strokes and dry firing with dummy rounds is free.

Agreed on all points. Why it is that proponents of the striker "safety" as the only safety bother to care what someone else does baffles me.

Anyway, the zealot arguments of no thumb safety versus a safety is identical to a 1911. The series 80 1911 has a grip safety, and the 80 safety / firing pin lock which makes its thumb safety redundant.

However, I was in the head of a department store and used the gun hook on the door and the lights went out... My GF had my phone and I had no problem groping for my M&P on the door hook in the dark

 

[jurek]

Anyway, the zealot arguments of no thumb safety versus a safety is identical to a 1911. The series 80 1911 has a grip safety, and the 80 safety / firing pin lock which makes its thumb safety redundant.

Not exactly..
... but this is not 1911 Forum to explain differences

 

[gnappi]

Not exactly..
... but this is not 1911 Forum to explain differences

Yes, EXACTLY.

 

[CBStuard]

I don't have the gun being discussed so this may be a little off. But, I have had good success using JBWeld to build up grips, safeties etc on other pistols. I figure that if my mod snaps off somehow, I still have the stock piece that came w/ the gun. JBWeld is pretty fluid as it is mixed, so you may need to make a small form to keep it in place while it sets up. I usually just use masking tape and peel it off once it is set. I just looked at pics of the Shield Plus and it looks to me like it would be best to make a small piece of sheet metal to lay on the surface of the safety and make it a little longer and glue it on there w/ JBWeld. It may be necessary thin down the frame forward of the safety to allow clearance for the extended piece. I would put some extra JB on the outside surface so you can shape it into a nice smooth rounded shape.

 

[scruffy]

The Shield+ thumb safety is a breeze to flick off and difficult to easily put back in the up position. Coming from a Sig 365 I view this as a plus. On no less than four occasions I inadvertently hit the 1911 style (wide and easy to snick on/off) thumb safety on it while practicing rapid fire at the range. Not good. The MS gives me an extra measure of comfort on a striker fired pistol as I carry AIWB with one in the chamber often.

 

[LCC]

There's a good reason why Glock Leg is an actual thing.